Justice Committee on May 6th, 2021

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you, Madame Chair, and thank you to all our witnesses for being with us today.

My questions are for Ms. Beaulieu.

It's a genuine pleasure to have you with us today.

I sat on the research ethics committee of the Institut universitaire de gériatrie de Montréal for 10 years. I've also focused my notarial practice on the protection of seniors' rights. The subject of your study is therefore of considerable importance and concern to me.

You just responded to Mr. Cooper regarding the police. Your research has shown that few cases are reported to the police. That's a fact. With that in mind, could you tell us more about the programs that the Montreal police department has introduced and that you discussed in your opening remarks?

[Marie Beaulieu]

Thank you for your question, Ms. Brière.

In my view, the act of reporting incidents to the police is the key to the criminal justice system. What we've seen over the years, until five or six years ago, is that police officers were not well trained in recognizing elder abuse. I was awarded a grant from the new horizons for seniors program to develop a practice model for the Montreal police department called police intervention with abused elders. I won't deny that our first step was to check with police officers to see how they perceived seniors. Many had never heard of elder abuse.

I can tell you more about Quebec because I also sit on the training and research committee of the École nationale de police du Québec. We've now introduced a number of scenarios and simulations into police officers' compulsory training so they can work with seniors, something that previously did not exist.

It shouldn't be forgotten that many police officers in their early twenties have no idea of what elder abuse is. Their attitudes toward seniors may be considerably tainted by ageism, and they may also have trouble recognizing, for example, that seniors may still be involved in domestic abuse.

To my mind, good police practice first requires police officers who are aware, but also model officers, who could be called champions, or officers who are capable of conducting the necessary psychosocial follow-up.

We realize that not all seniors will want their cases to wind up in court. However, you'd be surprised to see that, when we propose to assist seniors properly, many completely agree and even ask that justice be done. For some, the solution isn't necessarily to enforce criminal law to the letter. We also see many alternative solutions that are designed by various organizations, including in alternative justice, where the focus is on restorative measures.

As you probably know, Ms. Brière, the main reasons why seniors are reluctant to go to court are the long delays involved and the whole testimony issue. We had a case that got a lot of media coverage in Montreal in which an older woman suffered a stroke and died a few days after testifying. We've always wondered to what extent the stress of having to testify in those conditions was a major cause of her death.

This encourages us to consider solutions such as teletestimony and the recording of testimony. So we have to consider different work methods in criminal law, somewhat as has been done for children and victims of other types of crime.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you very much for your answer. That was most interesting.

I'd now like to move on to the definition of abuse, for which, as we know, there is no definition in the Criminal Code.

In an article of yours that was published in the journal NPG you wrote that the word "abuse" was too broad. How would you define elder abuse? What would be the best way to express it?

[Marie Beaulieu]

It took time to come up with a definition of elder abuse, and it came in 2002 as part of the World Health Organization's work in Canada, in the Toronto Declaration on the Global Prevention of Elder Abuse.

The declaration defines elder abuse as "a single or repeated act, or lack of appropriate action, occurring within any relationship where there is an expectation of trust which causes harm or distress to an older person”.

This definition is highly theoretical. What we can draw from it is that it's a matter of violence and negligence. But the key factor in this widely debated definition is the whole issue of the trust relationship, because it excludes all kinds of victimization in instances where seniors and the people involved do not know one another, or are not in a place of trust.

I can assure you that when we speak about places of trust, we go beyond the family sphere. My view is that care providers are definitely included. For example, seniors should trust those providing them with home care.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

All right. Thank you very much.

To conclude, could you draw a parallel between bullying and abuse? Bullying is another problem that is unfortunately too widespread.

[Marie Beaulieu]

Certainly. Elder bullying was never recognized until a few years ago. It involves a power relationship, and we now acknowledge that it's a relationship that can exist between people who know one another, but seniors can also be bullied by others, including other seniors.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you very much, Ms. Beaulieu.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much, Madame Brière.

We'll now go to Mr. Fortin for six minutes.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for being here, Ms. Beaulieu and Mr. Webb. When dealing with matters as important as this, expertise like yours is invaluable.

Ms. Beaulieu, I'll begin with you.

In your address, you described four different aspects, but you were unable to finish what you had to say about the last of these. I would therefore like to give you two of my six minutes so that you can briefly recapitulate the first three, and then explain what you wanted to say to us in the fourth.

[Marie Beaulieu]

Thank you very much, Mr. Fortin.

My first point reported on current knowledge about abuse, its prevalence and its dynamics.

My second point was about the legal scope of the abuse concept, including current limitations on Criminal Code enforcement. I specifically addressed practices.

My third point was about access to justice. Mr. Webb works for the Advocacy Centre for the Elderly. However, centres like these do not exist everywhere in Canada, even though I believe they perform a very important role in terms of access to justice.

My fourth point, which I did not have enough time to explain in detail, was about Canada's role in promoting human rights, and elder rights in particular. I mentioned the efforts of the UN, which is currently working on protection for the fundamental rights of older people.

In March 2021, only a few weeks ago, Canada sent a message that I found surprising. Our UN ambassador, the Honourable Robert Rae, gave an important speech in connection with an international convention on the rights of older people. However, only a few days later, a Canadian government representative gave a much more subdued speech that contradicted what Mr. Rae had said, which I found very odd.

Why shouldn't Canada take a stance as a leader in the recognition of elder rights? I also wonder whether the Canadian government is afraid of a new mechanism that could turn out to be as restrictive as some international conventions. It would nevertheless be an interesting perspective to adopt if we really want to improve our practices on an ongoing basis.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Beaulieu.

You said that not all provinces have centres like Mr. Webb's. I take that to mean that there are none in Quebec at the moment. Is that what you're saying?

[Marie Beaulieu]

For legal aid specifically for seniors, there is a legal aid centre for elders at McGill University, headed by a lawyer, Ms. Ann Soden. Other than that, what Quebec mainly has are user fee services, which are not always specialized in aid for seniors^x.

The Advocacy Centre for the Elderly in Ontario Is a model I have admired for many years. I have also been familiar with its work for years.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Based on your knowledge of the field, where do we stand on the funding of services for seniors? Is the situation we're in now acceptable, ideal or terrible?

You spoke earlier about access to justice, which is essential for everyone, particularly elderly people short of resources. There's the whole issue of crimes, ranging from physical abuse to financial exploitation. Ms. Brière also mentioned harassment. There are many areas that require action.

In Canada, and particularly in Quebec, do you feel that funding for seniors to address all these aspects of the issue is adequate or problematic?

[Marie Beaulieu]

I believe that there are still several problems.

When we work with seniors who have been abused and talk to them about seeking assistance or reporting an incident, we find that most of them don't know where to go, either because such services don't exist or because they're not well known.

For example, there are community organizations that specialize in assisting the elderly. Here in the Eastern Townships, the DIRA-Estrie organization deals with elder abuse, but not all regions have such services. People sometimes have to turn to government services, and heavy demand generates its own challenges.

While there's much more discussion of elder abuse now than when I began to work in this area 35 years ago, there is still not enough. It's important to continue to improve practices, particularly cross-sectoral services. This could mean that the police, community organizations, the health network and social services would all work together towards improvement. It's really much too complex for a single stakeholder to be responsible for a case of abuse.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Do you think the current situation resembles the way it was 10 years ago, or has there been an increase in the number of abuse cases?

Could it rather be that the situation hasn't changed, but that we're much more aware of it because of social media and other factors?

How has the elder abuse situation evolved?

[Marie Beaulieu]

The fact that people are talking about it more would indicate that people are more aware of elder abuse.

However, I can't tell you whether there are more incidents at home or in residential facilities. What I can say is that over the past year, the pandemic has revealed all kinds of problems in care homes and residential facilities. I think they existed already, but had never been brought to light.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Do you feel that there are more instances of elder abuse that take the form of financial exploitation? You were speaking earlier about abusive clauses in lease agreements, for example. Is this instead mostly about physical violence against seniors, whether by a child, a grandchild or someone else?

[Marie Beaulieu]

Elder abuse includes psychological, material, financial, physical and sexual aspects, as well as infringement of rights. It can take many different forms.

What stands out most in the major prevalence studies is always psychological abuse, which is very often accompanied by financial abuse or negligence. This is the form of mistreatment that we see the most. However, it is not necessarily what is going to lead to the courts, because psychological abuse is difficult to prove in court.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you very much, Ms. Beaulieu.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

If I could have a second, I'd like to ask something. Otherwise I'll come back to it later.

I didn't receive the document…

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much, Monsieur Fortin. You are 45 seconds over time. You're at almost an extra minute there.

Mr. Garrison, you have six minutes. Please go ahead.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank both of the witnesses for their very valuable testimony this morning.

I want to start with a quick question for Madame Beaulieu. She raised the importance of acknowledging that intimate-partner violence exists among seniors. I thank her for doing so. She's probably aware of the work our committee has done on that.

She raised another very important question about the ability of seniors, especially in private long-term care homes, to advocate for themselves due to their circumstances and fear of retaliation. I wonder if she sees a solution to that problem that she could suggest to us, in particular in the case of private long-term care homes.

[Marie Beaulieu]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Garrison.

I would say that the whole question of private versus public long-term care homes has been problematic for several years now.

I'll be very careful in my answer, having encountered serious abuse incidents in public care homes as well. I wouldn't want abuse to always be associated with private care homes, and to lead people to believe that everything is fine in public long-term care homes.

Nevertheless, it's true that people in long-term care homes are less able to defend their rights, because they don't have full physical or cognitive autonomy.

That's why laws on mandatory reporting are important. Most provinces have such laws, but they don't all work the same way. As it is more often associated with health and social services, it doesn't come under the Criminal Code.

Mandatory reporting may or may not be accompanied by measures to protect those who do the reporting. I'd like to link this to what my colleague Mr. Webb said a short while ago. Currently, families habitually report instances of abuse. They are often not very familiar with the structures. They might wonder about committees of residents, or the local complaints commissioner, or quality of services. Things can be moved forward through such mechanisms, but will not necessarily get to the courtroom.

So here again, problems are dealt with in spheres other than the one you are particularly interested in, namely the Criminal Code.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you very much, Madame Beaulieu.

I will turn to Mr. Webb and thank him for his very specific suggestions of things we should be considering.

I'm particularly interested in the suggestion that we find ways to hold accountable those who are responsible for the decisions in private long-term care homes especially.

I know of two particularly egregious cases with homes in 2020 that had very high levels of death, with the CEO in one case receiving a bonus of $467,000 for his performance and another CEO receiving a bonus of $336,375. In both cases, the companies that were reporting these bonuses made the point that these, of course, could have been higher. I find this shameful.

I want to ask Mr. Webb, specifically, with the parallels he sees in the Criminal Code and elsewhere, does he really think these can be used to get at this question of responsibility for the failure to provide the necessities of life during COVID?