Evidence of meeting #35 for Justice and Human Rights in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was elder.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Do you see that there are different issues with seniors who have disabilities or language barriers? Do you think there should be any specific recommendations to flush those cases out as well?
12:40 p.m.
Executive Director and Lawyer, Seniors First BC
Yes.
One of the questions we see is the presence of relatives as interpreters at a bank. When older adults want to open a joint account and they serve as interpreters at the bank, it is problematic. Obviously, they should not be in that room.
We see that also with seniors who want to change their address or information about their accounts. When they call Service Canada, there is no interpreter. Oftentimes the relative, who might be an abuser, serves as interpreter.
An easy first step would be to have more interpreters for Service Canada and at banks to ensure that whenever someone is given authorities, whether it's through a power of attorney or because they become a joint account holder, the relative who will be the beneficiary of this instrument will not be in the room and that the older adult is informed of the risks associated with granting that authority.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
In a case of disability, such as a hearing or speaking disability or language disability, are you suggesting that the bank or Service Canada also provide an interpreter or assistance in their language or means of communication?
12:45 p.m.
Executive Director and Lawyer, Seniors First BC
Yes, that would be helpful.
Thank you.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Ms. Baker, you said that reporting is there, but that actions don't happen afterwards.
Can you give us some insight or recommendations on how we can get more follow-up on cases such as what Ms. Campbell has just stated or what you have seen, so that there will be some follow-up and some protection for those who are elderly and being abused?
12:45 p.m.
Executive Director, BC Association of Community Response Networks and Member, Council to Reduce Elder Abuse
Our organization provides support for the communities to develop a community response. We're not doing direct service provision to the individuals who are being abused. Rather, we're helping members of the community, neighbours, friends, and families, to recognize the signs of abuse and then to know where they can be referred for service. Seniors First, and the services they provide, is one of the referral agencies that we use throughout our province.
We have 81 community response networks in British Columbia serving 233 communities. Our role is to develop the awareness of abuse, neglect, and self-neglect. We have a Chinese network and we're developing a Punjabi-speaking network. We have indigenous networks, LGBTQ networks, and we're open to whatever they want. It is driven by the communities themselves, not by our provincial organizations. That's why we have the two organizations.
The B.C. Association of Community Response Networks is local, and then the Council to Reduce Elder Abuse is a provincial network where we bring together all of the other organizations that are providing services so that we all know what each other is doing.
I don't think I've answered your question because I'm not really qualified to answer the question directly that you asked.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Maybe I'll go to Ms. Campbell very quickly.
Can you help me on how to get more reporting, especially if it is a family situation where there's a strong hesitancy to report your own son or daughter as somebody trying to manipulate or abuse them specifically for financial reasons, or even in cases of abuse?
Do you have any quick comments on that?
12:45 p.m.
Executive Director and Lawyer, Seniors First BC
It would be helpful if I echo, I think it was, Bénédicte Schoepflin, the executive director of the Canadian Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse, who suggested having mediators. Because reporting is difficult, people are afraid of going to the police. When they go to the police, as has been mentioned, it does not really go anywhere from what we hear.
It might be helpful to have mediators who specialize in elder abuse who can talk to the alleged abuser and/or the older adult and try to find a solution together.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
12:45 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for being here today to help shed light on this important issue.
My question is for Ms. Campbell.
In your opening statement, you mentioned the Senior Safe Act. If I'm not mistaken, you belong to the British Columbia bar and the New York bar. Tell us more, if you would, about the act.
Which U.S. states does the act currently cover? How long has it been in force? What does it stipulate?
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid
Make it very quick, Ms. Campbell.
Please move your mike closer to your mouth so we can hear properly. Thank you.
12:50 p.m.
Executive Director and Lawyer, Seniors First BC
All right.
Since the question was asked in French, I will answer in French.
The Senior Safe Act came into force in the wake of an initiative by the State of Maine, the Senior$afe training program. The program came about because Maine is the state with the largest senior population in the U.S. As I understand it, the Senior Safe Act is a national law.
In Maine, the work was done in partnership with the North American Securities Administrators Association. Bank employees are trained on how to recognize the exploitation and abuse of seniors, whether by family members, international fraudsters or false advertisers. Employees are then able to report those crimes to authorities identified in the legislation, so not just anyone.
If a similar law were implemented in Canada, those types of crimes could be reported to police, as well as designated agencies who would bring the information to the attention of the public guardian and trustee. Although it is not mandatory to use the mechanism, it gives bank officers the ability to raise a red flag in an effort to put an end to the problem.
What's more, seniors are not always aware of the problem or transactions on their bank accounts. If, at the very last, they were informed and the matter was investigated, it could help stop this type of behaviour.
Most importantly, the disclosure of information is not considered a violation of privacy. Normally, bank employees are not allowed to disclose information about transactions on a customer's account.
I hope that answers your question.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Yes, in part.
You said it mainly involves training. You referred to the Senior Safe Act. I'm not at all familiar with the legislation, but my guess is that it involves more than just training.
You said bank employees are able to report the exploitation or abuse of seniors. I think it would be a good idea to implement something similar in Canada. Those who work at financial institutions should definitely be on the lookout for financial exploitation. That's a good idea.
Nevertheless, does the act stipulate anything else? Do you know whether it sets out specific penalties, say, in relation to the physical abuse or neglect of seniors?
12:50 p.m.
Executive Director and Lawyer, Seniors First BC
No. It pertains solely to the financial exploitation of seniors.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
I see.
The act protects whistle-blowers who work at financial institutions. You said the act also provides for employee training. Is that correct?
12:50 p.m.
Executive Director and Lawyer, Seniors First BC
Yes. They are protected only if they have taken the training. The first step is to train bank officers, and they are then given a list of individuals to whom they can report these crimes.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Do you know whether the legislation is effective? Has it had the desired impact?
12:50 p.m.
Executive Director and Lawyer, Seniors First BC
I actually looked for those statistics. The act was introduced in 2018, and the only statistics I found were for the state of Maine. They show the program has been successful. It's still somewhat of a grey area; I wasn't able to find any clear statistics. According to the information I found, more issues were reported and the act was working, but unfortunately, no clear statistics seem to be available.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
I see.
You do not know whether other states adopted the same measure, do you?
12:50 p.m.
Executive Director and Lawyer, Seniors First BC
My understanding is that it is a federal act. The Senior$afe training program exists only in the state of Maine, but it was the inspiration for the national law introduced by the federal government.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
I understand. Thank you, Ms. Campbell.
I have less than a minute left for my last question.
Obviously, the issue involves not just the financial abuse of seniors, but also, and to a large extent, the physical abuse and neglect of seniors, as evidenced during the COVID-19 pandemic. I'd like to hear your thoughts on a matter under debate. Should the Criminal Code be amended to include new offences in relation to elder abuse? Are the current offences adequate? Should there be a greater focus on training the appropriate authorities and enforcing the provisions?
12:55 p.m.
Executive Director and Lawyer, Seniors First BC
We agree with Graham Webb's recommendation to add a new provision to the Criminal Code. Above all, we want law enforcement to follow up on seniors' complaints. Police seldom return to follow up once a complaint has been made. Even when seniors complain to police about the lack of follow-up, police still do not follow up.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid
Thank you very much, Monsieur Fortin.
We'll now go to Mr. Garrison for six minutes.
12:55 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I want to particularly thank the witnesses today, starting with Ms. Baker, for emphasizing the diversity of seniors. I think we sometimes fall into the trap, as we do as a society, of considering seniors as a homogenous whole.
I'll start with a question for Ms. Baker.
Do you think that federal government programs sufficiently recognize that diversity among seniors, whether it's ethnicity, indigenous status or sexual orientation and gender identity, and is there more the federal government could do to recognize that diversity?