Justice Committee on June 22nd, 2021

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you, Mr. Sarai. That concludes your time.

I will now go to Mr. Fortin for six minutes. Please go ahead.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to begin by thanking you, Ms. Campbell and Mr. Lametti, for being with us this morning to address these important questions.

You're both eminent jurists, well recognized as such, and I'm convinced that your contribution to the justice system is of major importance. That said, I have some questions for Ms. Campbell, but I'd like to start with Mr. Lametti.

Please, Mr. Minister, I don't want to argue with you. I just want to make sure I understand. I'll pick up on my colleague Mr. Cooper's question about using “Liberalist” or any other partisan information.

I thought I understood from your answer, but I may have been mistaken that, in Justice Jamal's case, you didn't check his political affiliations. You didn't consult the “Liberalist” or anything else in any way. Did I understand you correctly or not, Mr. Minister?

If you prefer not to answer, that's your absolute right. Just tell me you won't answer, but please don't waste the precious few minutes we have to question you both.

If I understood your response correctly, you didn't use the “Liberalist” or any other process to verify Justice Jamal's political affiliations.

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

For the Supreme Court appointment, the short answer is “no”.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

At the time, when I appointed him to the Court of Appeal for Ontario at the beginning of my term, I used the process itself. I have followed his merits and qualities, which are quite obvious. After I came to the conclusion that I should appoint him to the Ontario Court of Appeal, coming directly from the practice of law, we used, as I just described to our colleague Mr. Cooper, several tools to get to know the candidate better.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

There were probably other candidates on the short list. Did you check the political affiliations of the other candidates or not, Mr. Minister?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

With all due respect, you're mixing two things up.

My role in the Supreme Court appointment process was to take the list of preselected individuals, or the short list, if you will—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I just want to know—

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

—and hold consultations. As I said, we didn't use anything for the process.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

You didn't for any of the candidates?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Exactly.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Is it possible to know quickly when you stopped using the “Liberalist”?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

As I told our colleague Mr. Cooper, it was an ad in a newspaper—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

So you're not confirming that.

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

—and I don't remember the source.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

You're not confirming it. So you can continue to use it, as I understand. Is that correct?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

I have no opinion on the source of the article.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Forget the source. Are you confirming this news or not?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

There is no news. I've described the process.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

The news is that you stopped using the “Liberalist” quite recently. I understand that it's not [Inaudible—Editor].

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

I've described the process to you and Mr. Cooper.

I'm not confirming the news because it didn't come from my office.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Ms. Campbell, if I may, I have one or two questions for you.

I think Justice Jamal's appointment, from what I know without knowing him personally, is excellent. He strikes me as a competent jurist with a diverse human experience who will surely be able to bring important insights to the Supreme Court.

That said, in the selection process, can you confirm whether you have at any time checked the political affiliations of any of the candidates?

[Kim Campbell]

I can say absolutely not. We have access to the judgments that they think are among the most important, or if they are not members of the judiciary, articles or things so we can see their philosophy, and some of the questions on the questionnaire give them a chance to talk a bit about their philosophy and how they see the role of the judge, but we're not the least bit interested in that.

I actually think it's kind of a mug's game because the notion that the way that somebody votes in their civilian life will reflect the way they decide cases is actually not a very empirically well-established thing, so we don't interest ourselves in that at all, no.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Campbell.

I understand from your testimony that it wouldn't be a good idea for someone to be appointed based on their political ideas or political leanings. Have I understood correctly?