Medical Assistance in Dying Committee on April 8th, 2022

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate the rationale provided by Mr. Maloney, but I would note that this committee is different from a regular committee of the House of Commons. It's a special joint committee and, as such, we have two chairs. One is from the Liberals and one is from the Conservatives.

Based on the rationale provided by Mr. Maloney, it would seem to me to be appropriate that, if there's one additional member from the Liberals, there should similarly be one additional member from the Conservatives.

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Cooper.

Do any other members wish to speak?

Go ahead, Ms. Fry.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Chair, I wanted to speak to this because I think it isn't the same thing. That would mean that there would be two Conservatives on the committee.

The chair's a neutral person on any committee, so the chair is not able to vote. That means, if we allowed for a Liberal to be on that committee, we would have every party having a vote in the House of Commons. That is what we are suggesting, so that we have equal votes.

If we have two Conservatives, it would be unequal in the committee votes.

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Ms. Fry.

Senator Dalphond, you have the floor.

[Pierre Dalphond]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As I understand it, the proposal is to expand the membership of the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure from six to eight. So we would have a subcommittee of eight people and a committee of 15. I was wondering if that was the flexibility that was intended.

[The Acting Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Senator Dalphond.

Does anybody else wish to speak to the proposal from Mr. Maloney to amend the second routine motion?

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will acknowledge Ms. Fry's submission, and I agree with her.

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Cooper.

Go ahead, Senator Martin.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Yonah Martin]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

One note of clarification is that in the Senate committees, the chair has a vote and would be able to have a speaking role questioning witnesses. On the subcommittee, I wanted to clarify that Senator Mégie, as vice-chair, would have a vote and I, as the Senate joint chair, would have a vote. That is why we're proposing to add another senator to the subcommittee as well.

I wanted to add that clarification.

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Senator.

Do the clerks have any comments to make with respect to the usual process?

[The Joint Clerk, Mr. Leif-Erik Aune]

No we don't, sir. The committee is free to compose its subcommittee as it sees fit.

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, clerk.

If I don't see any other hands, I'm going to ask—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Chair, may I speak?

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Yes, Mr. Barrett.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Thank you.

Acknowledging, through you, the response and rationale from Mr. Maloney and from Dr. Fry, I echo Mr. Cooper's comments and appreciate them. Not to deviate from the practice that was adopted last year, I would note that most recently, the Special Joint Committee on the Declaration of Emergency agreed to not have a subcommittee.

If we adopt this motion, we will proceed with one, but I would observe that a committee that's of similar composition declined to proceed with the subcommittee.

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Your point is duly noted. Of course, subcommittees decide whether they want to meet or not. It's something that is available as a tool for this committee.

Are there any other points before I ask whether it is agreed to adopt the motion as amended by—

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Pardon me, Mr. Chair.

[The Acting Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Go ahead, Mr. Thériault.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Unless I’m mistaken, it seems to me that the arguments presented by Mr. Maloney and Ms. Fry run counter to those of Ms. Martin. First, we're told that, because the chairs are neutral, it would be important to add people to the subcommittee for voting purposes. Then we're told that everyone can vote. Then what is the point of adding people?

I was in favour of adding people to the subcommittee, because I think it's good practice for chairs to remain neutral. It makes it easier to work together. In addition, the comments or interests of a party may be expressed by a voice other than that of the chairs, except when they have to decide.

It seems to me that the arguments were contradictory. Before I vote, I want to make sure I understand the two positions that have been presented.

[The Acting Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Thériault.

In House of Commons committees, when committees vote, the chair only votes if there needs to be a tie-breaker.

I'd like to turn to the clerks to find out what the practice is or what is permissible with respect to joint chairs voting in subcommittees. Is there a rule with respect to that? I'm not aware of whether there is a rule or an accepted practice.

[The Joint Clerk, Mr. Leif-Erik Aune]

As previously mentioned by others, in Senate committees, the Senate chair has a vote and votes first. The established practice with joint standing committees is that the Senate joint chair may vote as well.

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Okay. For clarification, in the House of Commons, what is the practice with the chair in subcommittees?

[The Joint Clerk, Mr. Leif-Erik Aune]

The usual practice in House of Commons committees, including subcommittees, is that the chair only casts a tie-breaking vote, if required.

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

We have a bit of a difference in the way things are done.

I'm going to continue the discussion.

Mr. Maloney, you have your hand up.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I'm afraid we're getting bogged down in unnecessary discussion on procedure. I am of the view that this is fairly straightforward.

In response to Mr. Thériault's position, it's not just a voting position; it's an advocacy position. You want to avoid having to put a chair of a subcommittee in the situation where he or she is both an advocate and a voting member. It just makes it easier.

Let's not get too caught up in this, because remember that whatever happens at the subcommittee has to come back to this group as a whole. I don't think there's any risk in this amendment. I will remind everybody that it was adopted by this committee last June and was functioning quite well until the end of that session.