Medical Assistance in Dying Committee on June 6th, 2022

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Good evening, and welcome to the meeting of the Special Joint Committee on Medical Assistance in Dying.

I'd like to begin by welcoming members of the committee, witnesses, as well as those watching this meeting on the web.

My name is Marc Garneau, and I am the House of Commons joint chair of this committee. I am joined by the Honourable Yonah Martin, the Senate's joint chair. We'll share our responsibilities this evening.

Today, we are continuing our examination of the statutory review of the provisions of the Criminal Code relating to medical assistance in dying and their application.

I remind you that the Board of Economy requires that committee members adhere to health protocols, which are in effect until June 23. I know that you're very familiar with them. As joint chairs, Senator Martin and I will enforce these measures, and we thank you for your co-operation.

I would like to remind members and witnesses to keep your microphones muted unless you are recognized by name by one of the joint chairs. I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the joint chairs and that when speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. This is to help our interpreters. Interpretation in this video conference will work like it does for an in-person committee meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of the floor, English or French.

With that, I would like to welcome our witnesses for panel number one, who will discuss the issue of medical assistance in dying for mature minors in Canada.

We have two guests this evening. We are still trying to get the first one online, Myeengun Henry, indigenous knowledge keeper of the University of Waterloo.

Also, in person this evening, we have Ahona Mehdi, member and Just Recovery research lead of the Disability Justice Network of Ontario. Thank you to both of you for joining us.

We'll begin with opening remarks.

Ms. Mehdi, if you are ready, we will begin with you, and then we'll go to Mr. Henry afterwards.

In each case, you have five minutes, please.

The floor is yours.

[Ahona Mehdi, Member and Just Recovery Research Lead, Disability Justice Network of Ontario]

Hello, everyone. Thank you for having me.

My name is Ahona Mehdi. I'm 19 years old and I'm a member of the Disability Justice Network of Ontario's youth action council. I have multiple disabilities and, with respect to recent amendments to the Criminal Code, some of them would make me eligible for medical assistance in dying.

I'm here today because I'm extremely concerned and distraught, as a disabled youth, about the potential expansion of MAID to mature minors in this country.

Before I begin, I would like each senator and elected official here today to sit with this reality: Had MAID been offered to me just over a year ago when I was accessing treatments as a minor, I would not be here to testify before you today.

Elected officials, you continue to claim that safeguards will be in place for this expansion, that the assessment of MAID applications will be diligent and intentional, but how is this feasible? In Canada, disabled youth pay up to $200 an hour for therapy, but you are looking to expand access to MAID for these youth and to make it cost-free.

I believe in the right to choose, but making MAID a default option for disabled children who have been failed by your systems equates to coercion, not choice. If this process is truly informed by disability rights and autonomous decision-making, why is it being undertaken during a global pandemic when health care professionals are more overworked than ever?

A recent survey by the Canadian Paediatric Surveillance Program shows us that Canadian health care professionals are steadily and increasingly being approached by parents of children, including infants too young to make an informed decision, regarding access to MAID. This is scary and it proves that these discussions are only amplifying suicide messaging. How has knowledge around access to MAID for mature minors been made so widely accessible when the government consistently and intentionally refuses to make home care, palliative care, assistive devices, gender affirming and culturally competent care, counselling and other resources accessible to disabled youth?

The potential of expanding track two of MAID to mature minors scares me as I think about my past experiences within the health care system. When I was 17, my loved ones admitted me to a hospital with hopes that I would receive support and care, but I was met with the opposite. My assigned psychiatrist told me that I needed to get over my anxiety if I wanted to be successful. He told me that if I ever had a suicidal thought, I should just shove it in a drawer and lock it away. As a teenager, I was placed in spaces where I was consistently harassed by other patients—adult male patients. Rather than having the issues I was experiencing in the hospital addressed and having a safer space created, I was consistently met with medication. This was done without taking the time to understand my situation, and I was often provided with treatments that worsened my conditions.

I fear for disabled youth like me and those who have it worse than I do, who could be offered MAID in place of treatment or care. In the same way institutions continue to use prescription drugs as bandaid solutions for complex concerns, expanding MAID would be truly reckless. Placing the onus to choose between life and death on individual disabled children while neglecting the realities of systemic ableism in this country is truly egregious.

You continue to claim you are censoring the right for disabled people to die with dignity, but death cannot be the default option for disabled youth who are struggling.

I am asking you to oppose this expansion and to fight for an alternative in which disabled youth are met with a government that wants us to live with dignity. I'm here asking you to pause, to slow down and to fight this expansion. I'm here because I refuse to let you discuss and question my right to live without me. I refuse to let you question the right for Black, indigenous, racialized disabled youth to live and be cared for, especially without making an intentional effort to create space for them.

You claim you want to end our suffering but you are only inflicting pain when you allow your fear of disability to inform your decision that those of us currently living with disabilities are disposable and unworthy of living.

Thank you.

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Ms. Mehdi.

I see now that Mr. Henry is with us.

Mr. Henry, I'm assuming you can hear me. We are now ready to hear your opening statement of five minutes. Go ahead, Mr. Henry.

[Myeengun Henry]

Good morning. Can you hear me okay?

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

We can.

[Myeengun Henry]

Thank you for allowing me to come and join you today.

I'm a former chief of the Chippewas of the Thames First Nation just outside of London, Ontario. I now work at the University of Waterloo. I'm the indigenous knowledge keeper. I'm also a traditional healer and I work in organizations where we do indigenous healing practices for various people who are trying to find their way of healing.

Today was an interesting day. I took my faculty dean over to the Mohawk Institute in Brantford, Ontario, where we memorialized the survivors of that school and the ones who passed away at that school. Today's topic really resonated very well with me in terms of a person's life. I really think this committee needs to have an indigenous person's perspective to think about what we're going to do with the laws here in Canada. As I was at the residential school today, I knew very clearly that there is a deep-rooted history here that really needs to be looked at a bit more strongly in terms of life and the way indigenous people look at life in this world.

We also understand that there are times when people find a very complicated lifetime and some of the hardships they live through, but I think that in terms of how indigenous people look at life, it is really our Creator who we turn to at times like that. If we make laws that really look at this perspective, indigenous people have been through this already. We've been forced to leave this world, as you know from the children who have been lost and found at residential schools lately, in a form that was taken from them very similarly.

It's really hurtful to know that those children left this world without any type of opportunity in life. I know that survivors today are challenged, too, mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually. I'm living through that right now with a father-in-law who doesn't want to live any more because of the residential school that he had to endure. In his later years, his mind just goes back to that era in time. What he has given to me is the fact that he still has worth. He still has an ability to share something that this country needs to hear about that experience. He's not going to allow himself to fall into suicidal thoughts, even though the pain he's feeling today has really hurt him so badly.

I think that with today's topic and what we're discussing we want to get involved in this conversation. Indigenous people throughout Canada have endured all these terrible things, but today, I think, when it comes to supporting people who can help themselves through alternative measures like indigenous healing practices.... I've seen it happen already with some people who have gone to that point of wanting to leave this world, but now, in coming back to their culture and knowing there are ways that we are able to treat and work with these people, that thought of wanting to leave this world has subsided.

Throughout my healing practices that I've done with many people, it's very clear to me now that they need to have that extra ability to know their healing practices, and when they do that, because that was taken away from our people. For all those years, the residential schools didn't allow us to have our sweat lodges and our ceremonies, but because people now are able to practise these things again, they see an opportunity now, rather than trying to end their lives. It's not just for indigenous people, but for all people. If they find that peace that allows them to know that there is hope out there, then I think we can really look at this topic a little more strongly and have an opportunity once again to maybe revive in these people the hope that was lost.

I also know that there are times when people come to that point in life when it's inevitable and the pain they're feeling is probably at that point. I don't think medical professionals disagree that there are times when that is doable.

Until we get to that point, it has to come from the person. I think we can support that, and maybe make that decision a little bit later, rather than having somebody who has gone through this punishment in their own mind and wanting to just leave this world.

My message to you is, let's support this committee discussion. I don't know whether there are any indigenous people who have been invited to these meetings, and hearing that perspective. But for the years I have been doing healing work, I know we can help people, even at a point when they think there is no longer any hope for them. I have seen it happen so many times.

I'm here to reflect on that and to give us a chance to speak our mind. There's nobody else in this country who has been through what we have been through and the experiences we share. At a committee level like this, I think it's very important for you to hear this and for us to have these opportunities to share this knowledge that we have.

I hope we're able to continue on with this discussion with these very important elements that I think need to be addressed within this topic.

Canada is a great country, but we need to include the people who have been here since time immemorial on these topics. We have come through a hard time. Because of residential school, we're regaining those healthy ceremonies that we have always done. They were outlawed in this country for a long time. Now that we're regaining that, we're seeing people like my father-in-law being able to hold on a little longer, and then his knowledge gets passed on in his children and grandchildren.

I wanted to share that with you today.

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you very much, Mr. Henry.

[Myeengun Henry]

Thank you so much.

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

We will have a chance to ask you questions in the next hour. Thank you very much for those opening statements.

For your information, we had an indigenous witness in our last session, for example, and of course we have more sessions to go.

I will now hand it over to my co-chair, Senator Martin, for the first round of questions.

Thank you.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Yonah Martin (Senator, British Columbia, C)]

Thank you, Monsieur Garneau.

Thank you to our witnesses for your compelling testimony today.

We will begin this first round with Mr. Barrett, for five minutes.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Thanks very much, Madam Chair.

Through you, I would like to thank both of our witnesses for appearing here today and sharing their perspective on this difficult topic.

I'm going to start with my first question for Chief Henry.

First of all, again, thank you, Chief, for bringing your experience and perspective to us.

The capacity that children have to make decisions, I think is really important, and I would like to get your perspective on that. We sometimes take it for granted. Other times, we are very protective of our children, based on their susceptibility to influence. I think about things like alcohol, tobacco, and lately vaping and narcotics, and the protections that we offer to youth. All advertising in the province of Quebec to youth is restricted.

I'm wondering what your perspective is of an offer of, or information provided to, youth, and specifically to indigenous youth, from a trusted person like a medical practitioner with respect to MAID while that youth is living with suffering.

[Myeengun Henry]

I think it would be beneficial to that youth if there were an indigenous healer or practitioner alongside with that medical perspective.

Now, we're seeing youth wanting to get back into the culture and doing these things. I think the benefits would be astronomical to have that child know there are, in their own culture, ways of dealing with these issues.

When I work with Dr. Conroy in Toronto—he's a lawyer and a doctor—and we bring the medical traditional healers in with them, the children who come into Anishnawbe Health in Toronto are a lot better off. At least they feel comfortable with the knowledge they are getting.

I really think it needs to be both of those in that scenario...to talk to these children. The trust is coming back to the indigenous knowledge keepers with our young children, and I think when there's a medical professional there, they have part of it. It's the research and knowledge that way, but there's a spiritual element for these children that the knowledge keeper would be able to provide.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Right.

[Myeengun Henry]

I think a best-case scenario would be having both of them together to work with them.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Thank you, sir.

We know that indigenous-specific racism is real in our health care system. I'm wondering if you have concerns or thoughts on MAID being offered to indigenous youth potentially on the basis of them being indigenous while they're living with suffering.

[Myeengun Henry]

Can you reframe that question for me?

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Yes, sir. We've seen examples, even recently, of racism in our health system that has specifically targeted indigenous or first nations people. I'm wondering if you have concerns or thoughts on indigenous people potentially being targeted, for lack of a better word, with an offer of MAID in place of other health care options.

[Myeengun Henry]

Absolutely that concerns me, very much so, especially in the northern communities where they have only one doctor. Sometimes they have to fly them in or have them on Zoom. Sometimes what they're hearing.... It doesn't give the necessary knowledge to the child, or even to the people who are looking after that child to be able to help that child.

I do have concerns about health care with indigenous people throughout Canada. That's why I keep saying that we need to be participants in these conversations. That said, maybe we can help those communities who are feeling those racial issues happening within the medicare system here in Canada.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Thanks very much.

I'm not sure if I'll have time for a fulsome answer, but Ms. Mehdi, thank you again for sharing your time and your thoughts with us today. I was hoping you could expand on your concerns about discussions with youth living with disabilities being offered MAID, and how those offers might amplify thoughts of suicide.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Yonah Martin]

Please be very brief.

[Ahona Mehdi]

Okay.

I think suicide messaging is a huge thing. When we're hearing it from our peers and from the media, it's huge, but I think it's going to be a lot more drastic when we're hearing it from the government, from the state specifically—an entity with so much power. I fear for youths, because we know that hearing suicide messaging and hearing about suicidal ideation is a trigger. It could lead to more suicidal ideation for youth.

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

I'm going to interrupt the meeting for a second.

There is a person at the back. I don't know his name. I told him to put on a mask. He has not.

Sir, please leave right away.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Mr. Chair, maybe you could put on a mask.

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Do you know the rules? The rules are that the people at the table are allowed not to have a mask, providing they keep their distance, but everyone else is supposed to wear a mask.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

So the staff member—