Evidence of meeting #14 for National Defence in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was soldiers.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Peter J. Devlin  Chief of the Land Staff, Department of National Defence
Major Gino Moretti  Canadian Forces

10:25 a.m.

LGen Peter J. Devlin

They certainly do, sir.

I'm not trying to duck things here, but I'm not the best guy to answer what the specifics are. The Vice Chief of the Defence Staff, “Mr. Moneybags”, is the guy who--

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Is that “General” Moneybags, or...?

10:25 a.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

10:25 a.m.

LGen Peter J. Devlin

He's an admiral, so it's “Admiral” Moneybags.

What I do know is that there is movement down that road, which is a really important road to be going down. I think it probably touches other government departments too, but certainly Defence, where we're talking huge amounts of money spent over multiple years.

It's a good road to go down. I think once we understand what the intent is, we are very good at spending what we're supposed to be spending over a period of time, sir.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Thank you.

Mr. Opitz.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Ted Opitz Conservative Etobicoke Centre, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We've talked about a lot of things so far, General, in terms of training, equipment, and the focus on how we're going to refocus our training in terms of levels one to seven. We've agreed that we're at level five right now until we know what the next mission is. But I want to talk about some other things.

You did mention, at the beginning of your presentation, the fighting spirit, the warrior spirit. I'd like to put on the record how Canadians' perception of their military, how Canadians' support of their military, augments serving members' morale and helps contribute to the warrior spirit.

10:30 a.m.

LGen Peter J. Devlin

Thank you, sir. That is a huge point.

Our soldiers are filled with a rare level of confidence. It comes from having been in combat. It comes with a level of confidence over the skills that the armed forces in Canada provides to their soldiers. The Canadian Forces provides them with good kit.

It also is an absolutely phenomenal feeling to be in line at Tim Hortons here in Canada, to be walking down the street, to be on a bus, or to be at a train station or an airport, because we always travel in uniform; it is phenomenal the respect that Canadians have for the military. It makes us feel proud, and I think it makes soldiers march with that warrior spirit and that level of confidence.

It's a very special thing, sir.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Ted Opitz Conservative Etobicoke Centre, ON

Sergeant, would you like to comment?

10:30 a.m.

Sgt Maj Gino Moretti

The pride of soldiers is just like in this room: we're all Canadian citizens and we all take this great nation with pride. When a soldier puts on his uniform, he is proud to represent all of us. Regardless of where the government decides to send him, it's that heart.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Ted Opitz Conservative Etobicoke Centre, ON

I'm just going to ask one more question and then I'm going to share my last time with Mr. Alexander.

In terms of military education, we talked about teaching. There's a CLS directive on army ethos and ethics, but there are also more formalized programs, whether it's the AOC at “Foxhole U” or at Canadian Forces College, where at the upper level, the national securities program, we have allied officers--and some not allied--Canadian Forces members from all the elements, and of course senior-level executive civil servants on these courses.

Can you comment on the value of what we have done institutionally as the military and on the value that formalized military education provides to our soldiers?

10:30 a.m.

LGen Peter J. Devlin

Thank you, sir.

Professional military education I think has developed significantly over the past decade-plus. In the army we do have the army operations course. We have a number of other courses that take place at the combat training centre. Very important in terms of values and ethics is how we incorporate them into collective training.

At the Canadian Forces College, where we have the joint command staff program as well as the national studies program, all of those are international. All of those have whole-of-government partners. It's very enriching for our members, our army folks and others, to be next to folks from other nations to be able to exchange thoughts, to be able to talk about the future. It's also enriching for our whole-of-government partners.

Both of those are vital for tomorrow, in my view. We also send folks on international studies programs, which are also richly important.

10:30 a.m.

Sgt Maj Gino Moretti

Just on that point, sir, I had the honour to represent Canada at the United States Army Sergeants Major Academy. When I deployed to Afghanistan in 2003, I was able to link up with my classmates in Bagram to get information to provide the commander the necessary information required to achieve the task. It brings that cohesiveness and cooperation internationally, regardless of the mission.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Thank you.

Chris?

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Chris Alexander Conservative Ajax—Pickering, ON

Very briefly--

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

First, just so people know, I voted for you--

10:30 a.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Chris Alexander Conservative Ajax—Pickering, ON

You're embarrassing me, Chair.

General and Mr. Moretti, first, we are going to be honouring General Bouchard and the Canadian Forces commitment and achievement in Libya later this week. On behalf of the committee, I think we would like to transmit through you the committee's recognition of the fantastic, brilliant performance of the Canadian army in Afghanistan.

You're the first commander of the army to come before us since the end of the combat mission. We know the mission continues in a training mode, and we know the close-out mission continues, but please do transmit this committee's absolutely highest recognition of a brilliant performance.

My question is quick and double-barrelled. First, you have a roughly fifty-fifty regular and reserve force. How do you measure readiness for the reserves? Is it at all different? Secondly, you served in important command positions in the United States and in Canada, but also in Iraq and Afghanistan. From a personal perspective, what do you think the main lessons are, not just for our army but for armies from those two theatres, in terms of readiness? You've seen some units come in that were ready, with some very ready and some less so. What lessons have you brought to your current role from those two theatres?

10:35 a.m.

LGen Peter J. Devlin

Thank you.

On readiness in the regulars and the reserves, we measure that based on people, equipment, and training. For people, how many people are a part, based on our establishment, and how many are fit or unfit? On the vehicle side, it's almost the same thing: do we have our established number of vehicles for that unit, and do they work or not? On readiness, what level of training have we accomplished?

I think we have to be careful not to over-complicate readiness, because it is really just the packaging of the people, the equipment, and the training at the appropriate level. That would need to be topped up once a theatre was identified to be able to have Canadians go in and represent our land.

We measure readiness for the reserves in exactly the same way. Where we do level five in the regular force, the reserve does level four, so one level down is tied to resourcing. Then we provide opportunities on regular collective training events to bring the reserves to a higher level of readiness. It's very similar, but slightly different.

In terms of what I have seen and I have learned internationally, Canadians--soldiers, sailors, and airmen and airwomen--are phenomenal. They are phenomenal first because they are Canadians. I think the values that are at the heart of a Canadian are what make them a very precious asset on any battlefield, whether they are on a ship, on a plane, or have boots on the ground.

I think where Canada's great strength has been...and I think we saw it mostly in Afghanistan, where it was Canadians who demonstrated a population-centric approach to counter-insurgency operations, where they had a level of respect for the locals and a level of respect for local governance, where they could work with allies and could work with international and non-government organizations to provide that level of protection to the population of Afghanistan that therefore had the Afghans saying no to the insurgency, as opposed to the military saying no to the insurgency.

When that happens, that's when the tide changes, and that's when the population sees a brighter future for tomorrow. That's when the military--the ANA--and the ANP grow in respect and in confidence, and so do we and so does the international community. I think it is very much tied to how we work with the local population and the local security forces in a very respectful way: that is Canada's strength, and that is the strength moving forward for all militaries, in my view.

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Okay, thank you.

General, you talked about training and you talked about the different levels of training, and in your document you talked about normal readiness, high readiness. Would you be able to just provide the committee with a document that gives us a better description of what those training readiness levels are so that we can build that into our overall discussion as we go forward with the draft and have a report?

10:35 a.m.

LGen Peter J. Devlin

So I should provide you with a summary of those levels?

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Yes, if you could, just so we have a better comprehension of what the different training levels are when you talk about level four, level five, and so on.

10:40 a.m.

LGen Peter J. Devlin

Yes, sir. I would be happy to provide that to the committee.

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

I would appreciate that.

I also want to reflect Mr. Alexander's comments. We are incredibly proud of the great job that the Canadian army has done in Afghanistan, especially as we're in transition to a training role. As we move out of combat, the forces were very successful despite difficult circumstances and losses. We are proud of each and every one of our soldiers who were on the ground helping the Afghan people and carrying out that mission. So congratulations.

10:40 a.m.

LGen Peter J. Devlin

Sir, you will find Mr. Moretti and I on Thursday morning paying respect to the great mission that was accomplished in Libya. We're fiercely proud to be soldiers first, Canadian soldiers, with a level of warrior spirit that is remarkable and that places Canada in a position of strength moving forward. Well-equipped, confident, well-trained soldiers provide a level of flexibility for Canada and, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, the decisive force for our nation.

10:40 a.m.

Sgt Maj Gino Moretti

Mr. Chairman, soldiering is an affair of the heart. The soldier will go wherever he's needed and do whatever is asked of him. With the training and the resources he has and the leadership, the soldier is proud to represent this nation internationally and domestically, and to support also our first responders in any crisis needed, sir.