National Defence Committee on Sept. 25th, 2018

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

That's fine.

I asked you about the international peacekeeping training centre that General Mitchell had recommended. Would you be able to provide your input as to where you think a good location for that would be should the government decide to open one?

[MGen Stephen M. Cadden]

To be honest, sir, I think there's a good need for the United Nations to have that centre. I'm not sure which country should or shouldn't invest in it or where it needs to go. It doesn't really matter. It's about having the effect. I think that would be a good thing for the United Nations to have somewhere.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you.

I think that's as far as I will push it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

We have about a minute and a half left if someone wants a quick question. Otherwise I will yield the floor to the—

Mr. Fisher.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Chair, I probably won't get a chance to speak, so I will take that minute if I may. I'm only going to be touching on some of the things that Mr. Spengemann and Ms. Dzerowicz touched on as well.

We talked about the changes in peacekeeping. When you go back to 1996, you were basically training people to be observers. Now it's drastically.... You mentioned six foot five and some of the most lethal soldiers you have ever seen. Did we anticipate those changes? Did those changes happen and we reacted to them in the way we train Canadian soldiers now for missions?

We're seen as being some of the best in the world. Were we able to see those changes coming? In this committee we talk about the changes in peacekeeping all the time.

[MGen Stephen M. Cadden]

Yes, sir, I would say we have some of the best soldiers, sailors, airmen and airwomen in the world. Their core training is what makes them exceptional by comparison to others they see out in the world. The four members I mentioned, who I wish I could have brought here, were trained as part of a unit to go overseas, not to go as individuals.

This was a wrap-up of training. I will say there happened to be snipers from a particular French Canadian battalion who went over. They are highly trained. They have gone through our collective training regime, and we did a little bit of tweaking to teach them to work with the air force.

When we talk about what the Peace Support Training Centre has in the past provided, it is about individual augmentation or small numbers, not collective entities being trained to go over.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Got it. Thank you.

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

MP Gallant.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and to our witnesses.

General, under what circumstances would a female soldier per se be more suitable for a task than would a male?

[MGen Stephen M. Cadden]

Ma'am, I would say they would be for working in a city, in a village, in a situation in a patriarchal society if they had to deal with female members of the population who would not necessarily have a level of trust or empathy with a male soldier.

Some of our female soldiers who are mothers and wives and daughters themselves can articulate and relate a bit more to those elements of the population. Because many parts of the population see a uniformed member as a threat and not as a member there to maintain their security, if they have someone in a uniform that they can have any basis to identify with, which will allow us to build a relationship and establish trust, that would be an element I would see an advantage for.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

You were talking about protecting members when they deploy, but you didn't have a chance to finish. Do our members have training specifically to help safeguard against sexual assault by members of other nations who are on deployment in this so-called peacekeeping session? Are they given specific training on that?

[MGen Stephen M. Cadden]

In the context of a peace support mission, I don't believe so. I believe that's covered in the generic training we give all of our soldiers in the reinforcement of their ethical training and responsibilities.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Does it concern you at all that the people we're working with, our UN allies, are not as reliable as, for example, our traditional allies we worked side-by-side with in Afghanistan?

[MGen Stephen M. Cadden]

My experience in Haiti showed me that I had a few preconceived notions about how reliable some of our less developed militaries might be, and they blew me away with their level of professionalism, with their co-operation, and their willingness to go there.

I think we have to go with eyes open, and recognize that not everyone will have the same ethical foundation, the same approach or perspective to a problem, and the same level of training. However, many of them will go in there trying to do their best, and if we're able to reinforce, to articulate the right thing to do and to model it, I think we will have great success in ensuring we will not be anywhere near involved, and we will actually help to stop any sort of abusive situations.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Earlier you had said that any training that would help the UN in its chain of command, etc., would be welcome. What sorts of concerns do you have with that, the way things are run in a military operation, and that chain of command as it pertains to our troops, and particularly the Mali mission?

[MGen Stephen M. Cadden]

I think that might be my bias coming out. I'm the army's trainer. I would love my budget to be tripled and do more training. You can never do enough training. Right now, the United Nations relies heavily on a number of countries to provide trained staff officers and people who can run a headquarters, who can provide command and control to their areas. If we could get a few more individual trainers from other countries, that would just increase the pool and allow the UN to be more effective in its missions.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you.

[MGen Stephen M. Cadden]

More training is better.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Bezan will use the rest of my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Mr. Bezan, you have about a minute and a half.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

General, you talked about lessons learned from past missions and how you incorporate that in the training. Of course, we had limited UN success in Bosnia and Lieutenant-Colonel Jacques Allain was there. Rwanda, of course, was terrible, and we're actually going to have General Dallaire here next meeting, and then Somalia as well.

When you look at lessons learned of Canadian peacekeepers, these very difficult situations, the chain of command that broke down, and the strange decisions made at the UN from a bureaucratic level, how have you adapted the training program in Kingston?

[MGen Stephen M. Cadden]

I have not adapted the program in Kingston specifically, because we're training individuals—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Right across the country...I understand.

[MGen Stephen M. Cadden]

Yes, sir. Those are command and control issues.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

You do the doctrine though.