National Defence Committee on Nov. 8th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the defence committee. We're here to discuss the 2018-19 defence budget supplementary estimates (A).

I'd like to welcome the Minister of National Defence, the Honourable Harjit Sajjan; deputy minister Jody Thomas; defence officials and members of the Canadian Armed Forces. Thank you for attending.

We don't have a ton of time. I'm going to turn it right over to you, Minister.

The floor is yours for your opening remarks.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the standing committee. It's great to be here again.

Before I begin, I think all of us are reflecting on Remembrance Week, and how everything that we have the privilege of doing as parliamentarians, and especially as part of this committee, is a direct result of the tremendous sacrifice by all our veterans from the past. Everybody here, in their own way, is going to be reflecting on that on Remembrance Day.

I am very pleased to be here today to present the supplementary estimates (A) for the Department of National Defence. Today I am joined by our deputy minister, Jody Thomas; Shelly Bruce, chief of the Communications Security Establishment; Lieutenant-General Paul Wynnyk, our vice chief of the defence staff, and many senior members of our defence team.

Mr. Chair, under these supplementary estimates (A), we are requesting approximately $393.5 million. Of this amount, approximately $282 million relates to capital investments, which will help drive our defence policy, “Strong, Secure, Engaged”. It will help to move it forward. The money we are seeking today will help to continue delivering on our primary commitment to our people, and to all of the activities that support that goal.

“Strong, Secure, Engaged” provides a road map for all of our defence activities over the next two decades. Covering everything from procurement to innovation, from force development to operations, it encompasses our plan for the defence of Canada in the 20 years to come.

No matter how broad this policy is, every activity we commit to undertake comes back to our single most important objective, and that is to take care of our people. I have said it before, and I will say it again: There is nothing more important than the care and the well-being of our Canadian Armed Forces personnel and their families. When our people are well supported, our country and our values are well defended. That, in turn, allows us to remain capable and reliable partners to our allies.

Before I outline the details of our requested funds, I would like first to highlight some of our accomplishments over the last year. This will demonstrate how the funding we are requesting builds on the great work that has already been done by our team.

With respect to taking care of our people, we wasted no time in launching and delivering on as many initiatives as possible. One of our top priorities was to create a work environment free of stigma, harassment and discrimination, an environment where all Canadian Armed Forces members feel comfortable at work, regardless of race, sexual orientation or gender. I am pleased to report that we have made progress on this very important goal.

Following our Prime Minister's apology to the LGBTQ2 community, in order to right this historic wrong, we began implementing the LGBT Purge class action final settlement agreement.

In the last year, we also expanded the sexual misconduct response centre's service to offer 24-7 coverage from anywhere in the world.

We are drawing lessons from Operation Honour and applying them in support of our civilian defence team members. We are exploring options for extending the sexual misconduct response centre's services to them as well.

We have also worked tirelessly to expand services for the care of our military families. We have provided an additional $6 million per year for our military family resource centres, and we have also implemented virtual counselling services for families. We launched the Seamless Canada initiative to make it easier on families when they have to relocate from one province to another.

We know that the Canadian Armed Forces members are at their best when they are given the tools and resources they need to succeed on operations at home and abroad. For that reason, we have also made it a priority to give them the modern infrastructure and equipment they need to do that.

We've made significant, long-term investments in the capabilities that our military needs to carry out current and future operations. For instance, this past August, I had the opportunity to visit Canada's Arctic. There, we delivered new ranger rifles in Yellowknife and announced infrastructure upgrades to our facilities in Nanisivik and in Alert. We have begun delivering new standard military pattern trucks at various bases across the country.

Mr. Chair, caring for our people and giving them the tools to do their jobs well is essential for our success. It is fundamental to our goal of advancing Canada's position as a leader in promoting global stability and security. On this front, we have made significant progress in the past year.

Last November in Vancouver, we hosted the United Nations Peacekeeping Defence Ministerial. There, in partnership with the Roméo Dallaire child soldiers initiative, we developed the Vancouver principles on peacekeeping and the prevention of the recruitment and use of child soldiers. Today, I am proud to say that 68 United Nations member states have endorsed these principles.

Mr. Chair, where the previous government stepped back, we are stepping forward to show true international leadership.

We are also working with Global Affairs Canada to support the Elsie initiative for women in peace operations. This forms the basis of our efforts to increase women's participation in peacekeeping around the world and to bolster gender equality and inclusion.

In March, we announced that we would deploy an air task force to MINUSMA, the United Nations mission in Mali. That task force is now fully operational. Since June, it has provided critical support to the United Nations, including medical evacuations. During more than 1,000 flight hours, it has transported 1,900 passengers and approximately 200,000 pounds of cargo. I am proud to say that 14% of our troops on this mission are women. This is above the UN average.

Our efforts internationally extend well beyond our peacekeeping mission. We continue to work closely with our NATO allies in Europe. Our support for Ukraine is unwavering, and we have been training Ukrainian security forces and building their capacity and capability.

In Latvia, we recently extended our commitment to NATO's enhanced forward presence battle group at Camp Adazi by more than four years. That's the wider Operation Reassurance mission.

In Romania, we continue to stand side by side with our NATO allies to deter aggression and ensure peace and stability in the region. We currently have Canadian Armed Forces personnel deployed in Romania as part of NATO's enhanced air policing mission.

As well, a Royal Canadian Navy frigate continues to be deployed with NATO's maritime forces. Currently, HMCS Ville de Québec is supporting NATO assurance and deterrence measures in the region. It includes the first operational deployment of the CH-148 Cyclone helicopter.

I would also be remiss if I did not mention Canada's participation in Trident Juncture 2018, the largest NATO joint training exercise since the Cold War. Approximately 2,000 Canadian Armed Forces personnel participated in this exercise in northern Europe, which concluded yesterday. This large-scale NATO exercise was an important measure to ensure that our NATO forces are trained and ready to respond to threats against the alliance.

Now that I have summarized some of our most significant achievements in the areas of people and operations, I would like to move toward the requests we are making for supplementary funding today.

Everything we are requesting now will continue to drive “Strong, Secure, Engaged” forward and continue to deliver on its commitments.

Turning back to our greatest priority, I will begin with a request we are making to deliver even more world-class services and activities to care for our people.

We're requesting $17 million that will go directly to the well-being of our Canadian Armed Forces members. These funds will cover our members' Blue Cross health benefits.

We're also requesting $22 million for individual compensation, initial scheduled payments, administration and legal costs related to the LGBT Purge class action final settlement agreement.

With respect to capabilities and innovation, we are seeking $38.4 million for additional infrastructure upgrades to our bases and wings across the country. This would help us complete 23 ongoing construction and repair projects.

As previously mentioned, we are also requesting $282.2 million for capital investments. Among other things, the funds would go toward equipment such as vehicles, lab equipment and software. They would also go toward IT infrastructure modernization efforts and cyber and data security enhancements, which would improve DND's cybersecurity posture.

We are requesting $2.5 million in additional funding for innovation for defence excellence and security—IDEaS, for short—our program to transform defence innovation. IDEaS will drive forward research and innovation projects across 16 defence challenges, such as better understanding of post-traumatic stress disorder and cyber attribution.

I would now like to highlight the requests that would allow us to deliver on our commitment to international leadership.

As part of our contribution to transatlantic security and NATO, we are requesting $24.2 million for the NATO military budget. While the previous government withdrew Canada from NATO's AWACS program and diminished our reputation at NATO, our government knows that the world benefits when Canada steps up and does its part. That is why I was pleased to announce that our government would re-engage in the AWACS program.

I am also proud of our new NATO training mission in Iraq—an important signal that Canada can be relied upon to do its part when needed.

We will also transfer $53.8 million dollars to the Global Affairs Canada counterterrorism capacity-building program to support the government's Middle East strategy.

Mr. Chair, before I conclude, as part of the supplementary estimates, I would like to highlight a transfer we are making that relates to our government's broader efforts toward reconciliation with Canada's indigenous peoples.

Building on the progress we made last year with respect to Kapyong Barracks, we will transfer over $48,000 to Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada to help cover the salary cost of implementing the Camp Ipperwash final settlement agreement and now ultimately return the land to the Kettle and Stony Point First Nation.

Mr. Chair, we are committed to ensuring that the money we manage has a positive impact on our most important asset—our Canadian Armed Forces members and the families who have served alongside them.

I am proud of what we have already delivered, and we will continue to build on these priorities through smart investments.

On this note, Mr. Chair, I open it up to questions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you, Minister.

To get through this so that everyone has an opportunity, I'm going to be really disciplined at moving us along. If someone sees this sign, either a questioner or a responder, please wrap it up within 30 seconds, and at the end of that I will be moving us along.

The first seven-minute question is going to Mr. Spengemann.

You have seven minutes.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Sajjan, it's good to be with you. It's good to have you back, along with Deputy Minister Thomas and your senior leadership team.

It is, perhaps, particularly significant that we are with you today, as members of Parliament are returning tonight to their ridings to honour the lives and service of Canada's veterans, as you pointed out.

Minister, just before delving into some of the details of the supplementary estimates, I'll say that as a committee we travelled to the United Nations headquarters just last week, and the message we heard from the United Nations was overwhelming and unequivocal—that Canada is back in peace support operations and that our contributions do matter.

We're approaching the anniversary of the 2017 UN Peacekeeping Defence Ministerial conference. I'm wondering if you could give the committee an update on what we've achieved so far and what we're doing with respect to our re-engagement with the United Nations.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Thank you for that very important question.

I think Canada is known, from its past, to have stepped up at a time when the world needed it. Canada has always played a very important role with its allies when it comes to peace and security around the world. The United Nations plays a very important role on the world stage, and especially dealing with conflict, trying to prevent conflict and reducing it.

Since the defence ministerial conference last year, we took a very thoughtful approach in terms of consulting with the right people to make sure what Canada's re-engagement in peace support operations was. We wanted to support the United Nations' goals and reforms. Even though Canada had a very strong reputation for peacekeeping, we know that the peacekeeping of today is not the peacekeeping of the past.

We looked at what the missions require and what whole-of-government means. When we put forward our pledges, our whole-of-government approach, from military, development and capacity-building, it was about providing the right resources.

One aspect that was very important was understanding the realities on the ground. There is great work happening with the missions, but there's a lack of high-level capability, which only a select few nations can provide. That's how the smart pledges concept was created, and that's what we are doing in Mali at this time. We are providing a high-level capability, but at the same time no one nation will be burdened with that capability. It allows commanders to make sure the mission evolves and continues within a good progression.

The other aspect was the increasing number of women in peacekeeping operations. The Elsie initiative is making sure we incentivize nations to increase the participation of women and do it in a meaningful way. We are working very closely with Minister Freeland and Global Affairs to help deliver on this.

The other aspect was the challenges that the current conflicts create of the increasing number of people being recruited into radical organizations. This is where the child soldiers initiative and the Vancouver principles play very important roles. How do we reduce the number of recruits going in while also being able to train our members and also member states—the troops—to deal with child soldiers?

So, the work is progressing, but we have been doing it in a meaningful way that's going to have a tangible impact, not only for the United Nations but on the ground.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Minister, thank you very much. It's very helpful to hear these thoughts, that complementarity that you're speaking to there, especially in the context of the Secretary-General's action for peace reforms and also the Peacebuilding Fund.

On the supplementary estimates, Minister, DND is requesting the authority to transfer some $53.8 million to the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development in support of the Middle East strategy. I'm wondering if you could take this opportunity to let the committee know your thoughts on the Middle East and the key elements of the Middle East strategy as you see them in co-operation with Foreign Affairs.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

There is a much wider strategy for the Middle East. When we're conducting any types of dangerous operations, and especially with a decision of the government, we believe that a whole-of-government approach is extremely important. It's not just strictly about the military; it's about looking at the realities on the ground. What do our coalition partners need? That's what this is about. Global Affairs Canada has programs it runs in terms of counterterrorism, the capacity-building piece, which our members help to support in many different countries.

General Wynnyk, perhaps you want to elaborate on that.

[Lieutenant-General Paul Wynnyk, Vice-Chief of the Defence Staff, Department of National Defence]

Thank you, Minister.

I could provide some additional details with regard to Operation Impact. As I'm sure you are aware, over the course of three years Canada has committed to invest $2 billion in support of the Middle East engagement strategy. The specific transfer you're referring to, sir, is going to be dedicated to a number of things, including road construction and rehabilitation on Jordan's northern border with Syria; a significant contribution to Jordan's Directorate of Women's Military Affairs to advance the agenda in that regard; providing some winterization to logistics vehicles to operate in forward-operating bases in higher areas; and providing non-lethal equipment and aid to Iraqi security forces.

There are other things as well, but those are the major elements of the contribution you referred to.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much.

Minister, going into Remembrance Week, many of us in our communities see the air cadets out in full force collecting money for the Royal Canadian Legion and showing their presence in the community. I'm wondering if you'd take the remaining 30 seconds of my time to give the committee your vision of the cadet program, and what we could do to support it.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Every time I visit the cadets or talk about the cadet program.... It is the number one leadership program for our youth in the country.

What's the number? Is it over 50,000?

[LGen Paul Wynnyk]

Yes, Minister.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

What we're trying to do with the cadet program is enhance it. I want to see if we can enable more cadets to participate in summer camps. That's something I have seen when I visited the camps across the country.

The other aspect is diversity. I was extremely impressed with what the cadets are doing, and what we can learn from that. They have a lot more girls in the cadet program and a diversity that represents the population. That's something we need to extrapolate for the Canadian Armed Forces as well.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you, Minister.

MP Bezan, go ahead.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, departmental officials, and members of the Canadian Armed Forces for joining us today.

This being Veterans' Week, and Remembrance Day fast approaching, for those of you who have served and those of you who are currently serving, I want to say thank you so much for your service. On behalf of the official opposition, I hope you pass on to all the members of the Canadian Armed Forces our sincerest appreciation for what they do in standing on guard for all of us.

I was a little disappointed when I was looking through the supplementary estimates, Minister. Under vote 5a, the allocation is $4.1 billion in total now; however, in your “Strong, Secure, Engaged” defence policy, you pledge $6.6 billion for the same year. You're $2.5 billion short. Last year, you were short and missed the mark on your defence policy.

Also, the amount for pensions in the public accounts for 2017-18 was supposed to be $3.4 billion, but in supplementary estimates (A), it's $1.2 billion, so it's $2.2 billion short on pensions for our military members.

We've said all along that we had concerns that “Strong, Secure, Engaged” was a book of empty promises. You're underfunding it. I don't know how you plan on catching up.

Now, you did talk about Latvia and the important role we're playing with NATO in dealing with Russian aggression in the region. You talked about Operation Honour, respecting female members, and all members of the Canadian Armed Forces who deal with sexual misconduct and sexual assault.

However, last week we saw a disturbing report in the media related to the Team Canada flight that went over to Latvia to build morale with our troops in Latvia and Greece. There's been a misinformation campaign coming from the department, from your office. So I ask you this, Minister. Did you or your press secretary Byrne Furlong approve statements suggesting that the VIP party flight would cost only $15,000, which was reported earlier this year?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Thank you very much for the question. Also, we will make sure that the message to the troops is going to be passed on, for the tremendous support that all parliamentarians give them.

First of all, I'll answer your question in terms of the budgetary side, SSE and what we're trying to achieve here. It's also important to keep in mind that the Canadian Armed Forces need predictable and sustainable funding to plan out for the long term. The defence policy does that. At the same time, we had to create a structure in place to take the investments and be able to do more with them. I'll talk about it in a second.

Probably the most important piece to this was making sure that we didn't have lapsed funding, and that has been now—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

But you're underfunding—

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Now that has been, the lapsed funding.... I would be happy to explain that in more detail.

When it comes to the other projects, in terms of our capacity to spend, we are trying to spend on projects as fast as possible, but as responsibly as possible. As we are increasing our capacity to take on greater projects—you'll see the increase in that—we will be able to do more. That is also part of the legacy that we had to deal with in terms of not having enough people to manage a project.

Not only will that continue—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

You set goals and you're missing those goals now.

My question, Minister, was actually about the flight—

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I'm getting to—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

—and the claim that it was $15,000, which we know later came in at $337,000. Does your office—

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

To answer your question, [Inaudible—Editor] about pensions and.... I'm just trying to answer the question you asked.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

No, that was a statement.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Oh, it was a statement. Okay, I'm happy then.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

My question was, did you or your press secretary, Byrne Furlong, approve statements suggesting that the VIP party flight cost only $15,000, when it actually cost $337,000?