National Defence Committee on Dec. 1st, 2016

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

The role 2 hospital is a capability that was put in for our forces, but you have to take a look at all aspects of the situation there. When I visited Iraq for the first time, there was an attack that happened. It's not just looking at what we provide in terms of role 2. We have to look at the holistic picture of the Iraqi security forces, the injuries they're taking, and the civilians.

In the north they do actually have good hospitals there. Let's put the role 2 hospital aside for a second. For example, one of the biggest aspects of what the Iraqi security forces had, especially the peshmerga, was not being able to do casualty collecting points. Based on your experience, you know how important the casualty collection point is, so you can stabilize people before you put them in an ambulance. They realized during that time when they took significant hits that they didn't have this ability. We were able to send in the right people to start training them on how this is done. They wanted to just quickly send them on to the hospital, but as you know, somebody may not survive on the way.

We looked at all aspects. It's not just about the number of injuries; it's about how that treatment is going to be done for the Iraqis, the Iraqi security forces. We have a certain responsibility, as Canadians, within that area. We are fulfilling that. The hospitals are there for the coalition, but those types of decisions are made on the ground, and they look at things. For us to judge exactly who should go in there would actually hinder their ability. The coalition itself did look at all aspects, especially when it came to displacement that was happening there.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I understand the operational perspective. However, General Vance said that civilians could also be treated at the hospital. At the moment, civilians are dying, body bags are being closed while the people in them are still alive, and no civilians are being treated in the hospital.

Given the money that the hospital has cost Canada, could it be made available to Iraqi civilians? That was the thrust of my question.

Let's go back to the supplementary estimates (B).

The government has said that $450 million will be set aside for UN missions in Africa. Canadian troops will be going to Mali.

Which part of the amount goes to the Canadian Forces? In the supplementary estimates (B) ending March 31, 2017, which part of that amount will be invested in training for the troops who will be going to that country?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

It's not in these supplementaries, but I could talk to you about the peace operations mission, which I've mentioned before. We have a commitment as a whole-of-government approach of up to $450 million and up to 600 personnel. The decision on exactly where we're going has not been made yet.

There is a critical role for Canada to play in conflict reduction and conflict prevention, because when it comes to peace operations, what's happening in that part of the world is not happening in isolation. What's happening in Iraq is having a direct impact on what's happening in Africa, including what's happening in Europe, with the direct impact of the migrant crisis.

We are taking all this into account and making sure that when the decision is made—whether it's the military contribution, the development and the diplomacy—Canada is going to have the right impact. The investment that we have committed to is there, but we will always need to continually reassess.

Once that decision is made, we'll make sure that the cost is explained thoroughly as well.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

You have not told me whether the $450 million allocated to operations and planning come in part from the Department of National Defence budget.

With that said, since we are talking about operations, I would like to know why we are working with the UN rather than with our allies, as we are currently doing in Iraq. After all, we know that conducting operations with the UN is ineffective.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Here's the irony in all this. We are actually working with our allies. When I go to the counter-ISIL meetings talking about Iraq, it's the same partners we are going to be working with when it comes to the United Nations.

The United Nations is an organization that conducts peace support operations, but the same members that I operate with, whether it's NATO, Iraq, or the counter-Daesh meetings, are the same partners who work in police operations. We do it in the United Nations context because it provides a multilateral environment to have a certain impact. These impacts that we're having are not done in isolation. In fact, we actually have solidified our relationship to an even greater extent, because we are working within a multilateral environment.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

You know—

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Mr. Paul-Hus, that's your time.

Mr. Gerretsen, you have the floor.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Following on the conversation that Mr. Spengemann started with respect to Operation Impact, do you have a sense as to where that's going in the future and what that could potentially cost?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

In terms of the cost, no, we don't have a determination of that, but I can tell you we have looked at our involvement, even before we made the decision, of where things need to go. The military portion of the operation is one aspect. It buys you time to deal with the real problem, the political situation that's there.

A lot of the work that I've been doing with my counterparts is also focusing on that political piece. That's why we push for, and it was accepted, to have the military liaison teams that are working within those governments. As the liberation of Mosul takes place, we're also working on making sure that the unity remains, because the work that's going to be done after is going to be absolutely crucial to making sure that there's stability. These are not my words that I am about to say here, but if we don't get that piece right, we don't know what the great-grandson of al-Qaeda is going to look like.

We do need to have a lot of focus on the development, the displaced folks there, and the political situation is going to be essential. How we support Iraq and the region is going to be critical, but we're not going to do it alone. We need to be doing it with our coalition partners.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

What is the role of special forces in that?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Right now?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Yes.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

It's an advise and assist function. They have trained certain units up to a very good level and they can then conduct operations on their own, and we've seen the great impact of this. The Mosul operation wouldn't have been possible if it weren't for the great training that was given and the advise and assist function for the peshmerga. Once the operation is complete, we will then do another assessment of where our military needs will be. The goal always, once the success is there, is to do less with the military and start bringing in more of the development and governance work that's going to be absolutely crucial.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Turning to some of the transfers that are going out, in terms of the number of transfers that have been requested.... Actually these are transfers from other organizations, and then there's one that's going out. There are three in particular that are from other organizations to help support research at RMC.

I don't know who wants to answer that, you or one of your officials, but I'm curious if you could expand on that and whether it is commonplace for that to happen, and what more specifically the funds would be used for.

[John Forster]

The granting councils under the Ministry of Industry, Science and Economic Development run programs that fund chairs in universities right across the country, so it will be an application process. They'll choose the best chairs and provide funding to a university to have a very esteemed professor for a certain amount of time to do work in an area, biotechnology and so on.

The Royal Military College, like other universities in Canada, is eligible to apply to that program, so they would submit applications to either the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council or to the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

That money is coming in as a result.

[John Forster]

It's coming in, so they are a recipient, like every other—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

It's not necessarily a regularly budgeted thing. It depends on the application process.

[John Forster]

They would have to apply. They are going to compete against all universities in the country.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I also noticed, albeit it's a relatively small amount, that just under $100,000 is being transferred out to Shared Services, and in particular, it's going to core information technology services with Canada and missions abroad. Can you explain that?

[John Forster]

Sure.

Shared Services provides, as you know, the computer infrastructure for the whole government. When we put people in missions abroad, our defence attachés, for example, Shared Services has to provide the computer, the hookups, and the technology for that person. They get to bill us for that cost. That's $83,000 to reflect that we have people overseas who need a computer.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Okay.

My last question—

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

You're out of time, Mr. Gerretsen.

Ms. Gallant, you have the floor.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chair, if I have any time remaining at the end, I'll share it with James.

Minister, when our troops leave Operation Impact for home, what is in place in terms of decompression? We can't expect our troops to go from the front-line battlefield to trimming the Christmas tree at home in just the span of time it takes to get from Iraq back home.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Absolutely. That decompression is essential, and I've gone through it a number of times. I'll let the vice-admiral talk to the details of it.

I also want to take this opportunity to mention that as we look at the operations we are conducting now and into the future, we need to be able to continue to learn about decompression, what works and what doesn't, and continue to evolve for when they come back home.

As we talk about post-deployment, we need also to look at pre-deployment. It's going to be a much bigger look at this to make sure we give all the tools to the Canadian Armed Forces so that they leave healthy and resilient and come back healthy, as well.