Evidence of meeting #66 for National Defence in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was policy.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
—and then we also have the defence engagement program that Mr. Venner can talk to.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Leona Alleslev Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Then, of course, my colleagues would be disappointed in me if I didn't ask my standard question, which is, how are you measuring success? We have 111 initiatives, but they're not all equal, so what would you say are the true top three priorities? How are you measuring them? What are your three key challenges, and how are you measuring those?
5 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
We're using analytics, the analytic system I spoke about, to measure achievement in terms of the successful implementation of each initiative. Everything is important, but some things, though, are further down the road. We're aligning implementation with the money coming in, and it's very well planned.
We've also aligned our departmental results framework with “Strong, Secure, Engaged” so that the key outputs we'll be measuring for the departmental results framework will show Parliament what we've done: here's what you asked us to do, and here's how we've done it. This is aligned against SSE so that we're not doing one-off reporting. Everything is very holistic, a cohesive look at what's being done in the department.
The challenges are many. If we want to recruit 100 people and we only get 95, then we feel we've not succeeded. If we don't get the money spent in a particular year, that's going to be problematic for us, and if we're not seeing the increases in productivity, for example, in the turnover procurement projects, we'll see that as a challenge.
On the whole, though, I think we have put in place the foundation to succeed. We're taking it very slowly and very systematically. We know who's doing what. We have a collective understanding of what needs to be achieved, and that was step one. Initiative 71 might have meant something very different to the person who is a lead versus the person who wrote the initiative, the CDS, or the DM, so a collective understanding is really critical.
It's a big undertaking. Success is going to be measured in days, weeks, quarters, months, and years. We feel that if we align what we achieve with the funding, hit the milestones that have been laid out in the system, and manage the risk, we'll be doing very well. In six months we'll have a better view than we do now. We're looking at outputs and measuring the what, not the how.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I didn't want Ms. Thomas to feel left out after I asked everybody else questions in the last round.
One thing in the SSE is the commitment to hit 1.4% GDP, although we know some of that's coming through creative accounting. Can you explain what some of that shell game is?
5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
I'm going to have to disagree a little bit with the premise. I don't see it as a shell game at all.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
Well, you were talking about some spending being taken from Coast Guard, from Global Affairs Canada, and from Veterans Affairs Canada, and being added to the defence envelope.
5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Yes. NATO has a standard of what you can include and what you cannot include.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
I thought we'd been using that standard for the last 20 years.
5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
We weren't using it all. I came from Coast Guard, as we all know. Some of what Coast Guard did to support the Department of National Defence or does jointly with the Department of National Defence was included, but not all of it, so I asked questions that hadn't previously been asked. For the maritime security operations centres and for search and rescue, the infrastructure managed by the Coast Guard that supports all of that communication should be included, because the operations centres require that communication infrastructure to do their job. All that was being included were the people staffing the centres, as opposed to the infrastructure that supported them. I don't see that as a shell game; I see it as complete costing, and it has to go through a very rigorous process.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
—or are we using some of the Coast Guard vessels and patrols? Is that going to be added in?
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
You were very clear last time you were here that Coast Guard is a civilian organization without even constabulary authority, although we should maybe expand it to include constabulary authority, especially in policing our international waterways.
How does it work, then, on veterans when there's talk of veterans' pensions being added in?
5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Other countries do include that. We have a study—
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
What percentage of GDP is that going represent?
5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
It's not very much. I'm not sure if Gord knows. I don't know the exact number. We'll certainly get that for you. We have a complete breakdown of that 1.4%—what's in, what's out, and what percentage it all is—and we'll be happy to give it to you.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
I'd appreciate seeing that.
Mr. Matthews—and this is also for Ms. Thomas—you mentioned the definitions surrounding “procurement” and “requests for proposals”. We definitely have seen a start and stop, start and stop, and start again on Canadian surface combatants. That has turned some of the manufacturers off from even participating.
Is there any way we can clean up this process so that it moves more quickly? Where do the changes in definition for the RFP originate? Is it over at procurement services and the old public works department, or is it at national defence?
5:10 p.m.
Senior Associate Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
I can start.
Understand I'm still getting up to speed on some of this stuff, but thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.
My understanding is that we are expecting bids in shortly, within the next month or so.
You're right that the process has had a few stops and starts, but my understanding is that it's back on track. When we're through this, we'll have to look at the stops and starts and see what we've learned so that we can apply it to future procurements.
I'll have to turn to the people who've been in the department a little longer than I have to add to that answer.
