National Defence Committee on Oct. 30th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

I call the meeting to order.

I'd like to welcome you all to the defence committee to discuss your appointments. I'd like to congratulate everybody.

Pursuant to Standing Orders 110 and 111, we have the Order in Council appointment of Ms. Jody Thomas to the position of deputy minister of national defence, the appointment of William Matthews to the position of senior associate deputy minister of national defence, the appointment of Gordon Venner to the position of associate deputy minister of national defence, and the appointment of Geneviève Bernatchez to the position of Judge Advocate General of the Canadian Armed Forces.

Congratulations.

I was told that each of you will speak, so I'll just run down the line.

Ms. Thomas, you have the floor.

[Jody Thomas, Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, I am honoured to appear before this committee to speak about my new role as deputy minister of national defence.

In April, I addressed this committee when I was appointed as the senior associate deputy minister.

I spent the better part of my time speaking about my personal and professional life before coming to National Defence. Of course, those details haven't changed.

Today I'll focus my remarks on what has happened since I became senior associate deputy minister, as well as the challenges that lie ahead of me as deputy minister.

First, let me say how proud I am to be speaking at this committee today with my two colleagues, the senior associate deputy minister and the associate deputy minister. I am also enormously proud to be here alongside the Canadian Armed Forces' new Judge Advocate General, Commodore Geneviève Bernatchez, who is the first woman to be named to this very important office.

Last week I assumed the role of deputy minister. I worked very closely with former DM John Forster to ensure a smooth transition, and I wish him the very best in his well-deserved retirement. As the senior associate, I saw first-hand what a hard-working, dedicated public servant John was. My first week as DM only served to deepen my admiration for all that he accomplished. His steadfast determination to deliver on programs and commitments was matched only by his dedication to building strong relationships with leaders across the defence team.

Together, under his leadership, the defence team was able to move the agenda forward. In particular, working as the mental health champion has been fulfilling for me, and I look forward to continuing in that role in the years ahead. It is important to continue discussing mental health and ensuring plans are in place to support the defence team, both military and civilian.

But the launch of Canada's new defence policy has been monumental. I am grateful to have been with the department for its release.

The Defence Team leadership truly understands that Strong, Secure, Engaged, or SSE, as we call it, is a once in a generation opportunity. It is an opportunity to transform the way we support the Canadian Armed Forces and prepare for the defence of Canada over the next 20 years.

This is an opportunity we won't squander. We will deliver this policy because it's what's expected of us.

I'm proud to have recently been a part of the joint suicide prevention strategy between National Defence and Veterans Affairs. It was the first SSE—“Strong, Secure, Engaged”—initiative that the Department of National Defence delivered on, and a clear signal that no effort would be spared in quickly implementing the initiative to better care for people. That's really what it's all about. None of the tremendous work the Canadian Armed Forces does can happen if we don't care for its members properly. I'm pleased to report that everyone at the Department of National Defence is on board with the rapid implementation of people-focused programs and services. I am fortunate that I was appointed to this position at a time when the relationships between the military and the civilian parts of the defence team are strong.

As we usher in a new era of growth and development for Canada's military, we could not ask for a better leader for the Canadian Armed Forces than Chief of the Defence Staff General Jonathan Vance. I intend to build on the relationships that have been created and continue in John Forster's footsteps as we commit ourselves to the tremendous task of delivering SSE's initiatives.

On the departmental side, I have a great team working with me towards these goals, and I am fortunate to have welcomed two extraordinary new deputies to help lead our organization through this transformational change. They will introduce themselves in detail, but I wanted to speak about what each of them brings to their role.

In the role of associate deputy minister, we have Gordon Venner, former assistant deputy minister of policy in the department.

SSE was delivered and developed under his strong guidance and leadership. Few people in the department have such a depth of understanding of this policy and its initiatives. More than that, Gordon brings decades of foreign policy experience to the role, having served as Canada's ambassador to Iran. He is widely considered to be among the public service's most capable policy minds.

In the role of senior associate deputy minister, I am pleased to introduce Bill Matthews, the former Comptroller General for Canada. In addition to his proven financial acumen, Bill has a track record of project management leadership through organizational change, which will serve our department extremely well through his tenure.

I can safely say that Gordon, Bill, and I have gotten off to an excellent start working together. Let's hope they think the same.

We have a strong leadership team at the Department of National Defence, and I'm enthusiastic about our prospects for successful implementation of our defence policy.

Succeed we must. The criticality of the work performed by our department cannot be understated. The women and men at DND are key enablers who support the Canadian Armed Forces in defending Canada and our interests at home and abroad. Whether it's thwarting terrorist activities overseas or rescuing civilians from natural disasters at home, the Canadian Armed Forces rely on the support of the department to do their jobs as well as they do, and I intend to strengthen that support even further during my time as deputy minister.

The policy is essentially a reset for DND and the Canadian Armed Forces. Every effort we undertake as a department is now geared towards the successful delivery of its vision and its goals. With 111 initiatives set out within SSE, implementation is going to be complex. As a start, my focus is on completing the groundwork that will set us up for successful delivery of this policy over the long term. That's not all flashy announcement-worthy work. It's not, by any stretch of the imagination, but it's work that must be done.

To start, the chief of the defence staff, Bill, Gord, other defence team leaders, and I can track each and every initiative that has been announced as part of SSE. The CDS and I are alerted when things are running behind schedule, and together we question, push, guide, and encourage forward momentum across the department.

Part of what allows us to do this is the department's analytics software. We're using it to its full capacity. It's a tool that we've had in the department for 10 years, but we're using it and finding it especially valuable for SSE implementation. The software ensures that everyone in the department can understand and track progress on any SSE initiative at any time, and since all defence team leaders have the tracking software on our desktops, we can dive into initiatives ourselves. It's early days, but progress is good on populating the system. That kind of transparency is motivating, and it sends a clear message through the department that we're pressing ahead and committed to staying on track.

We're also growing the defence team by recruiting, staffing, and training in key areas for growth, but that takes time, and we need to speak about it with frankness and honesty. Last week, at a Canadian Global Affairs Institute event, senior CAF leaders and I had the chance to discuss the challenges we face in staffing specialized positions that we need filled to deliver SSE, including procurement specialists, engineers, and cybersecurity experts. Our task is not to hire as many people as we can, but instead to find the right people with the right skills to fulfill the right roles. That takes time if we want to get it right, and we do, but it's worth the time and effort because we will be better off in the long term. It's more of that groundwork that I mentioned earlier.

Even as we do that, I'm focused on the overarching priorities of SSE, which are first and foremost the care of Canadian Armed Forces members and their families. Initiatives related to the care and support of CAF members are, naturally, no-fail initiatives. They will be treated with urgency because people are at the core of this policy.

You'll hear the chief of the defence staff often say: “People first, mission always”. That's very much a guiding principle for the rollout of SSE, as well.

But giving Canadian Armed Forces members the tools to do their jobs well is equally important.

The Canadian Armed Forces cannot be what they need to be without the right equipment. We get that, so we're implementing the capability and equipment-related initiatives at the same time as we're taking care of our people, and we're doing it with equal fervour and energy. Our materiel team is diligently streamlining its processes to reduce the time it takes to get the equipment our troops need, and we're committed to changing the narrative about DND's relationship with the defence industry once and for all.

With a policy reset of this magnitude, the defence team will be relying heavily on exceptional support from, and collaboration with, other government departments and central agencies, such as finance, Public Services and Procurement Canada, the Privy Council Office, Treasury Board Secretariat, and others. We need solid partners in each of those organizations to deliver SSE.

My role as DM is not only to guide the department in maintaining forward momentum but also to build the trust and confidence within these organizations that DND can manage the implementation of SSE. When our analytics software alerts us that something has gone off course, it will be my role, with the CDS, to keep the key leaders of those partner organizations informed, so that we know how we'll resolve issues and get back on track. I'll work with other deputy ministers, the Clerk of the Privy Council, and defence stakeholders from all sectors. We'll need all hands on deck to deliver this policy. Strong collaboration is critical to see this through.

We'll be keeping you informed throughout the rollout of this policy as well, keeping lines of communication open and continuing this dialogue in the months and years to come.

Mr. Chair, if there's one more thing I'd like to convey to this committee, it's the pride with which I'll fulfill my duties as the deputy minister of national defence. This department is in my DNA, with generations of my family having served and still serving. I don't take my role for granted. The people who work at the Department of National Defence, the Canadian Armed Forces members we proudly support, and the goals we're working toward—I'm privileged to be a part of it all, and I'm delighted to lead the department in the months ahead.

Thank you for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you, Ms. Thomas.

Mr. Matthews, you have the floor.

[William Matthews, Senior Associate Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for the opportunity to address this committee.

I consider it an honour and a privilege to have been appointed senior associate deputy minister of the Department of National Defence.

I am looking forward to working with Deputy Minister Thomas and Associate Deputy Minister Venner as we implement the government's new defence policy: Strong, Secure, Engaged.

I am eager to bring the experience and skills I have acquired in the private and public sectors to this position.

I will have two areas of primary focus. The first area is procurement. The implementation of Strong, Secure, Engaged will require a high volume of procurement activity.

The second area is the transition. There is important work to be done to close the seam between the Department of National Defence and Veterans Affairs Canada. That work rests at the heart of improved support for our veterans and their families. It's important for the Canadian Armed Forces members, too. We must ensure that the Canadian Armed Forces members have the support they need to prosper as they transition to civilian life.

This is an exciting time for everyone at the Department of National Defence. “Strong, Secure, Engaged” was a significant and much-needed policy reset. As part of the consultation process, the defence teams solicited input from internal experts, Canadians, other government departments, and our allies. “Strong, Secure, Engaged” will ensure that the women and men in the Canadian Armed Forces are well equipped and well supported for the next 20 years. I look forward to working with my new colleagues as we move forward to implement “Strong, Secure, Engaged” and improve our support to the Canadian Armed Forces.

When it comes to the enormous task of implementing the new policy, I believe I have two areas of strength that will enable me to add value.

Before joining the public service 13 years ago, I was an associate partner with PricewaterhouseCoopers and IBM. The past 13 years of my career in the federal public service were spent at the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat, mostly within the Office of the Comptroller General, and for the past three years, I served as the comptroller general of Canada.

During that time I obtained extensive experience developing, implementing, and interpreting Government of Canada policies in the areas of financial management, internal audits, procurement, and project management. In addition to costing, my experience in the areas of procurement and project management will be most beneficial in my new role.

In addition to being responsible for the policies in these areas, I was the functional leader of the related professional communities. Internal audit and financial management communities in government have set a very high standard in the areas of talent management and professional development. In the areas of procurement and project management, while I acknowledge there is still work to be done, I am incredibly proud of the work that was accomplished there to build and strengthen these communities.

Implementing “Strong, Secure, Engaged” will be challenging, and problems will be encountered along the way. Collaboration, openness to change, and good financial management practices can prevent and solve problems. I look forward to playing a leadership role in all those areas.

I also have experience in helping to grow organizations and communities in times of change. I know that will be very useful as we grow the defence team to implement “Strong, Secure, Engaged”. For example, when I joined the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat in 2004, only 1,100, or about 35% of the government's financial management community were designated professional accountants. In 2016 that number had grown to over 2,500. That growth is critical to ensure taxpayer dollars are well spent and to allow parliamentarians to exercise their critical oversight role. A focus on value for money and high-quality reporting is something I plan to maintain at the Department of National Defence within the framework of SSE.

I'd like to touch again upon the care and support of our people. SSE is centred on improving the quality of life for our military members, veterans, and their families. I believe many of these lessons can be applied to our civilian workforce as well. The well-being of employees is essential to the success of any organization. We cannot do great things as an organization if our people are not well cared for. Employees who are well supported are ready and eager to serve.

Closing the seam between the Department of National Defence and the Department of Veterans Affairs was a priority in the mandate letter of the ministers of both departments, and that priority is reflected in “Strong, Secure, Engaged”. As Deputy Minister Thomas noted, we've already started delivering on “Strong, Secure, Engaged” initiatives related to the Canadian Armed Forces members and veterans, but there is much more to do, so the work continues. The transition and veterans support pieces will be among my priorities as the senior associate deputy minister.

On a more personal note, mental health is an issue that has recently begun to receive the attention it deserves. This matter is very important to me. I currently sit on the board of directors for the Royal's Institute of Mental Health Research in Ottawa, as well as chairing their finance and audit committee. I find this role very rewarding and I look forward to continuing in that capacity.

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, thank you for having me here today and for giving me the opportunity to introduce myself. Thank you for your time. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you, Mr. Matthews.

Mr. Venner, the floor is yours.

[Gordon Venner, Associate Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and honourable members of the committee. I will be brief.

I am pleased to appear before you today as associate deputy minister of national defence.

It's a tremendous honour to do this job. Working alongside the defence team that you see here, together with Chief of the Defence Staff General Vance and the entire Canadian Armed Forces leadership team is an immense privilege.

Over the last three years, I have worked with the Canadian Forces to help enable and facilitate the tremendously important work they do. Whether fighting forest fires and floods at home, deploying abroad to provide humanitarian assistance, or standing up for our values in conflict zones, the Canadian Forces do great work every day on our behalf. Being part of the team that supports them means that I get to come to the office every day confident that the work I do is important and meaningful and helps to make Canada and the world a better place.

It's not just a tremendous honour to start this new position alongside Jody and Bill and the new Judge Advocate General; it's also a great moment to take on new responsibilities.

Earlier this year, the Department of National Defence concluded the most comprehensive review of our defence policy in Canadian history. We now go forward on the basis of a sound policy footing. I'm particularly proud of the broad consultative process that kicked off that review. The online process, which resulted in over 20,000 Canadians sharing with us their comments and questions, would have been technologically impossible not that long ago. The round tables we convened with experts across the country were well attended and allowed our ministers and parliamentary secretary to hear directly from knowledgeable Canadians. Of course, dozens of members of Parliament, maybe some of them at this table today, held their own consultations in their constituencies and were kind enough to share the results with us.

Let me also commend the excellent committee work done in this House and in the other place; it contributed to our deliberations.

Mr. Chair, I come to my new responsibilities with a different background from most of my colleagues. I spent most of my career as a diplomat. I am, and always will be, a proud product of the Pearson Building. I hope this experience will help me to be of service to our minister and to Jody Thomas as they lead the department forward.

I served as the assistant deputy minister in the Global Affairs department, responsible for Afghanistan, among other countries, at a time when we still had a significant troop presence in that country. I've been responsible in the Global Affairs department for the Middle East twice in my career, and I have found that experience invaluable since we deployed our troops to the region under Operation Impact. I spent 12 years working in the Europe branch and in our mission to the European Union in Brussels. I found that useful, as Canada has assumed a new job as one of NATO's framework nations while deploying to Latvia for an enduring mission.

I've also, Mr. Chair, spent considerable time working with international organizations such as APEC, the OECD, the G8, and the G20. I am finding that time spent working in these organizations is applicable in other international and multilateral contexts, such as NATO, NORAD, or the counter-ISIL coalition.

Mr. Chair, the challenges facing the Canadian Forces at this time are considerable. The rapid pace of technological development alone means that we have considerable work ahead of us to ensure that our forces can do the work we expect from them. Our rapidly changing geostrategic environment, described in chapter 4 of our new defence policy, sets out some of the other challenges we face. If you haven't had a chance to read it, I particularly recommend that chapter. It's only seven pages long, and I think it sums up some of the tremendous challenges in the environment that shapes our work today.

One lesson I learned while working on Middle East issues and while serving as our ambassador in Iran is that long periods of stability can often disguise underlying social turmoil, occasionally resulting in rapid and even revolutionary change. Just think of the Arab Spring or the Iranian revolution. Periods of instability mean that our Canadian Forces must maintain high levels of readiness. We never know when they will have to deploy on short notice to far corners of the globe to deliver humanitarian aid, help prevent tragedies, or fight chaos and destruction.

In the months ahead, I hope to help the Canadian Forces maintain readiness, renew themselves for upcoming challenges, implement our new defence policy, and adapt to a rapidly changing world. Working with Minister Sajjan, Jody Thomas, General Vance, Bill Matthews, the JAG, and other DND leaders, I am confident that we have the team we need, a team with complementary skill sets, well balanced to respond to both the predictable and the unexpected.

If I have learned anything from working with the Canadian Forces these last three years, it is that teamwork is critical to responding to all great challenges. Of course, that team will need to transcend national defence. Modern threats to our security mean that we need to work as part of a seamless whole-of-government effort. Indeed, our team needs to work effectively with other levels of government.

I spent some time working in provincial and municipal government early in my career and I know that effective cooperation across levels of government will be just as important in dealing with security threats in the future as it has been in coping with natural disasters in the past.

Mr. Chair, I look forward to being part of the team.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you, Mr. Venner.

Go ahead, Commodore Bernatchez.

[Cmdre Geneviève Bernatchez, Judge Advocate General, Department of National Defence]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am honoured to have the opportunity to appear before you today.

As the 15th Judge Advocate General, I am proud to follow the worthy line of my predecessors, especially as the Canadian Armed Forces Legal Services Branch prepares to celebrate 100 years of service in support of the rule of law and democracy in Canada.

I understand that you have been provided a copy of my biography, so my intention is to briefly identify the role and function of the Judge Advocate General and my vision for the office and the work we do.

I am appointed as the Judge Advocate General to perform two distinct roles as set out in the National Defence Act. First, I have the responsibility of superintending the administration of military justice in the Canadian Armed Forces. Second, I act as legal adviser to the Governor General, the Minister of National Defence, the department, and the Canadian Armed Forces in matters relating to miliary law.

Canadian military law includes military justice, as well as the law pertaining to the governance, administration, and activities of the Canadian Armed Forces. Together, as a team, members of the Office of the Judge Advocate General act with purpose. We enable the provision of client-focused, timely, options-oriented, and operationally driven legal advice and services in support of the Government of Canada and defence priorities and objectives.

To that end, we work in close collaboration with our colleagues in other departments, including our colleagues in the Department of Justice, as well as the legal services of the Privy Council Office and Global Affairs Canada.

Under my command, the office will continue to play a key role in helping decision-makers understand and place into context the legal aspects of their activities.

The Office of the Judge Advocate General is made up of of 200 regular force and 48 reserve force legal officers, seven senior non-commissioned officers, and 91 civilian support personnel serving across Canada and abroad. The Office of the JAG is composed of the directorate of military prosecutions, the directorate of defence counsel services, as well as the following five divisions: military justice, administrative law, operational law, regional services, and the chief of staff.

I have command over all officers and non-commissioned members posted to the establishment of the Office of the Judge Advocate General. Legal officers must all be members in good standing of their respective provincial or territorial law societies. They are officers of the Canadian Armed Forces. The duties of those legal officers are determined by or under my authority, and in respect of the performance of those duties a legal officer may only be under the command of another legal officer. This relationship reinforces the obligations of the legal profession and ensures the provision of independent legal advice.

In 2010, 29% of our lawyers were women. Today, 35% are. It is important to highlight that half of our new legal officers are women. As you may be aware, about half of the lawyers who now enter the legal profession in Canada are women. This demonstrates that our current numbers are reflective of the broader Canadian legal profession.

As stated in Canada's new defence policy, our most important asset is our people. Along with my senior leadership, we are setting the conditions to ensure that our people receive the care, the services, the professional development, and the support they require to succeed. We also foster a culture that encourages diversity as well as inclusion. This is central to attracting and retaining talented and qualified individuals.

The areas of law for which the Judge Advocate General is responsible include military justice, military administrative law, and operational and international law.

As Judge Advocate General, I exercise authority over everything related to the administration of military justice in the Canadian Armed Forces. I am responsible for ensuring that this system operates effectively and in accordance with the rule of law.

As Canadian courts, including the Supreme Court of Canada, have repeatedly confirmed, the military justice system is necessary since it addresses the particular needs of the Canadian Armed Forces with regard to discipline, efficiency, and morale. It is a system that is an integral part of Canada's legal mosaic, which continuously evolves and which must remain consistent with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Military administrative law also forms part of the legal backbone of the Canadian Armed Forces. My administrative law division provides strategic legal support to the Canadian Armed Forces and the Department of National Defence on a wide range of matters dealing with all aspects of a military member's career, from recruitment to release and transition to civilian life. As the overarching priorities of Canada's new defence policy relate to the care and support of Canadian Armed Forces members, my administrative law division plays an important role in supporting the chief of military personnel in the implementation of the policy's objectives. The administrative law division is also continuously involved in providing legal advice and services in support of a range of strategic priorities, including the implementation of Operation Honour.

Last but not least, my operational and international law division provides legal support to the Canadian Armed Forces and the department in relation to the conduct of domestic and international operations. The practice of operational law is something that truly makes the practice of military law different from that of our civilian colleagues, particularly in the deployed context.

There are currently 19 overseas missions supported by deployed legal officers or with personnel from my operational and international law division. Further, over the last several months, our legal officers have advised on domestic operations such as the Canadian Armed Forces deployments to assist Canadian civilian authorities in their emergency responses to ice storms in New Brunswick, to floods in Quebec and Ontario, and to wildfires in British Columbia.

Mr. Chair, I do not take my appointment as Judge Advocate General for granted. It is a tremendous privilege to lead the women and the men who enable departmental and Canadian Armed Forces decision-makers to conduct their multi-faceted operations, whether at home or abroad, in accordance with applicable laws while meeting Canadians' expectations.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you, Commodore.

We'll go to formal questioning. If you see this while you're receiving a question or giving one, it means you have 30 seconds. This helps me do my job. I would appreciate it if you check with me every once in a while.

At the end of formal questioning, there's a motion on the table from Mr. Bezan. He'll move that at the end, but in the interim, I'd like to move to the first round of seven-minute questions.

Mr. Robillard, you have the floor.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will ask my questions in French. I am actually pleased to see that French plays a significant role in the Canadian Armed Forces.

Mr. Venner, you shared your biography with the committee. It shows an extensive background in international issues. How will this international experience guide your actions in your new role as associate deputy minister of national defence?

[Gordon Venner]

Thank you for your question.

As I said in my opening remarks, my experience is sort of varied.

I'm surprised to discover, given the variety of things I had to do as a diplomat, how much of it is useful in my current responsibilities. That's because of the tremendous diversity of tasks we've asked the Canadian Forces to take on around the world.

I spent some time working in Europe. I spent 12 years with my crew working in Europe. I've had to make two trips to Latvia, and I find that we have issues that deal with how the NATO relationship with the European Union is going to develop, particularly in the context of Brexit. We wonder how that is going to change both our defence relationship with the United Kingdom and the role the European Union is going to end up playing in national defence issues, particularly as the United Kingdom leaves. Perhaps there's a different balance of views within the European Union on how its own defence posture should evolve.

Indeed, NATO is constantly talking about how its own relationship with the European Union should work and what kind of partnership it should develop with the European Union. If you'd told me 20 years ago, when I was working on European issues, that these issues would come around in this context, I would have been astonished.

The experiences that I had working in the Middle East were some time ago now, but I'm surprised at how enduring some of the underlying issues are in the region. The disputes, some of them, are hundreds of years old, and they'll be with us a lot longer, so I'm not surprised that some of the same problems I was dealing with as a diplomat are coming back to play out again in a slightly different context.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Venner.

Ms. Thomas, during your last appearance before this committee in April, you mentioned that you wanted to champion the cause of mental health in the Department of National Defence.

Since April, what have you done about it as senior associate deputy minister of national defence? What do you intend to do now as deputy minister of national defence to champion the cause of mental health?

[Jody Thomas]

Thank you for those questions.

In the seven months that I was the senior associate deputy minister, we had launched a number of activities for supporting the conversation about mental health.

I have held question-and-answer town halls on mental health at CFB Halifax and CFB Esquimalt. We launched the Not Myself Today campaign within the department; this campaign gives an opportunity for managers and staff to talk about their mental health. We worked very hard over the last seven months. We continued the work that had started before I arrived with the Department of Veterans Affairs to pull together, publish, and announce the joint suicide prevention strategy.

Two weeks ago we held a healthy workplace day in the department and invited Séan McCann from Great Big Sea to come and speak to us about his experience in using music to help heal people who are suffering from mental health problems.

That's a very high level of what we've done. It's a continual conversation and discussion in the department, whether it's on the Canadian Armed Forces side, the civilian side, or jointly, to ensure that the Department of National Defence is a healthy workplace.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Thomas, how do you see your role in supporting Canada’s new defence policy “Strong, Secure, Engaged”?

[Jody Thomas]

I'm very happy to talk about my role in terms of SSE. I see myself as a partner to the chief of the defence staff in driving implementation. We have changed the entire governance of the department in order to manage implementation so that every level in the organization that has a role also has a view into what needs to be done. As senior associate deputy minister, I chaired with the chief financial officer and the vice-chief of the defence staff a committee that oversaw the beginning of the implementation, the analysis of all 111 initiatives.

We are using analytics. We're not expecting people to do this on the side of their desk. We're not expecting people to guess at where they are in terms of implementation. We've put together a very robust program to look at every initiative and enter the data into the system by milestone, date, complexity, and risk, and we align that with when the money should come into the department so that we don't lapse money or overspend and we ensure that we're meeting the targets expected of us. We're using technology to do that, rather than graphs and spreadsheets that people keep individually, so that the CDS and I have an overall view of the entire thing.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Mr. Yurdiga is next.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair; and thank you to the witnesses.

My first question is to Commodore Bernatchez. In your opinion, do parts of the military justice system need to be modernized, and if so, what parts?

[Cmdre Geneviève Bernatchez]

There is no doubt in my mind that the raison d'être and the necessity of the military justice system continues to endure. It's a system that has been recognized by our highest tribunal as responding to the very specific needs of the Canadian Armed Forces for maintenance of discipline, efficiency, and morale.

There is also no doubt in my mind that it is a system that must always continue to progress in order to ensure that it remains very well aligned with Canadian values and with Canadian legal requirements, including the charter. In my view, it is system that we need to continue to evaluate to ensure that it progresses.

There are different areas. There is a solid backbone that has been recognized by the courts as well, and as the jurisprudence continues to progress, we'll have to ensure that we maintain a consistent review of the system so that it keeps pace with the legal requirements.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you.

Another question is about the SSE. How do we implement it with your organization or your department? Will you be part of that implementation?

[Cmdre Geneviève Bernatchez]

It is my foremost priority for the Office of the Judge Advocate General at this moment that we assist and support the departmental and Canadian Armed Forces clients in the implementation of SSE. There are several initiatives in which we will be and are engaged to ensure that the legal authorities are in place and that the department and the Canadian Armed Forces fully understand the legal parameters moving forward.

We did a little exercise when I first took office to see how we needed to align our services to ensure that we responded to the departmental and Canadian Armed Forces requirements. We soon realized that we'd probably be one of the rare organizations that would be very much involved in support of the implementation of SSE by advising departmental and Canadian Armed Forces authorities moving forward.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you.

My next question is to Madam Thomas. In your opinion, what are some of the strengths and weaknesses of “Strong, Secure, Engaged”, and how long will it take to be fully workable?

[Jody Thomas]

Well, the “Strong, Secure, Engaged” initiative is workable now, but it's a 20-year program from start to finish between day one and the end of the last procurements. The strengths are it is broad, inclusive, and reflective of broad consultation with parliamentarians, the public sector, industry experts, academics, and people within the department. I think it is reflective of where Canada needs to be from its perspective as a player in the world, and the fact that as we exercise traditional Canadian soft power, there has to be a strong Canadian Armed Forces as well.

Its only weakness is that we are trying to get it all done at once, and that's not a weakness in the policy; it's probably just our eagerness to implement it. I don't think it has any large weaknesses. I think it is a comprehensive plan and it's a comprehensive look at what the Canadian Armed Forces and the Department of National Defence should be delivering on behalf of Canadians.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Second, are you aware of any other country that has something similar? We don't want to reinvent the wheel, so are you taking some of the good and bad from everyone and making a program that's more efficient?

[Jody Thomas]

Mr. Venner certainly can give you quite a bit of detail on what we based it on, but my understanding is the United Kingdom and Australia put out very similar plans just before we did.