Evidence of meeting #74 for National Defence in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was going.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Patrick Finn  Assistant Deputy Minister, Materiel, Department of National Defence
Jody Thomas  Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Charles Lamarre  Commander, Military Personnel Command, Department of National Defence
Alain Parent  Acting Vice-Chief of the Defence Staff, Department of National Defence
Claude Rochette  Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Deputy Minister, Finance, Department of National Defence
Elizabeth Van Allen  Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Environment, Department of National Defence
Greta Bossenmaier  Chief, Communications Security Establishment, Department of National Defence

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

Thank you.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Stephen Fuhr

I think, Minister, that's all the questions we have for you today.

Ms. Gallant had a point of order. Proceed.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Just before we release the minister, and thank you, Minister, for coming, would you please provide the committee with a list of the properties, including the armouries, that DND is going to divest itself of?

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

We haven't gone through the full assessment on that. When it comes to different buildings, as you have mentioned, we want to make sure we do a proper analysis and allow the team to ensure, with the defence policy review, that we have the right infrastructure. We need to do our homework on that.

Of course, not only are we making sure it's presentable to Canadians as well but some of this infrastructure is very important to the community, and we need to make sure where we're investing and where we're not going to.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Thank you.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Stephen Fuhr

Minister, thank you very much for your time. We know you are busy.

I'll suspend so you can depart, and we'll stay with the officials for another 45 minutes.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Stephen Fuhr

Welcome back, everyone.

We have some new members, or newer members—they've been here for a while—but I'd like to remind everybody that we agreed some years ago that when we go through the formal questioning, the chair would be able to divide up the time, and predictably, for the past two years I've just taken the remaining time and divided it equally amongst the parties to make sure everyone had an opportunity. I don't plan on changing that, and today will be no exception.

I will start with five-minute rounds of questions. We'll go Liberals, Conservatives, NDP, and then I'll re-evaluate and divide the time again until we get down to the end. I need to save a few minutes at the end for the committee for the votes.

Having said all that, I will resume with the first five-minute round, and it will go to Mr. Gerretsen.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Mr. Chair, I'm going to split the time with Ms. Alleslev.

My question is with regard to the peacekeeping operations. In Kingston, as you know, a new peacekeeping support training centre officially opened recently. The minister spoke about that in his opening comments. Could you elaborate for us how these supplementary estimates include funds related to this, and in particular how the funds will assist that peacekeeping training centre? Could you also discuss the importance of the UN Peacekeeping Defence Ministerial Conference that occurred in Vancouver?

4:50 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence

Jody Thomas

Thank you very much for the question.

I'll start by talking about the conference. The UN Peacekeeping Defence Ministerial Conference was an extraordinary opportunity for Canada to showcase not only what we are going to commit for peacekeeping, but additionally, the principles that the minister laid out—that our 600 troops are not as significant in the 20,000 people who are out doing peacekeeping at this time as much as our principles and our approach to peacekeeping and women, peace, and security. That includes training police officers, training other countries in how to use women in peacekeeping, being alongside them as they train women who are actually in the field—as opposed to having women peacekeepers stay at the base camp and not out interacting with the citizens in need. That approach will change the outlook on peacekeeping significantly.

The minister, the Prime Minister, and the special envoy, Angelina Jolie, spoke to the criticality of doing no harm in peacekeeping. When peacekeepers from other countries are sexually assaulting the most vulnerable citizens that they're supposed to be supporting.... Those are not the values Canada supports.

Our entire approach to peacekeeping at UNPK and the Canadian view of peacekeeping was, I think, well understood by everybody in the world and much appreciated.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Do you think that the peacekeeping training centre will directly support that work?

4:50 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence

Jody Thomas

I absolutely do. I can ask the vice-chief to speak in more detail to that, but our Canadian values and our approach to peacekeeping—how we train, how we assist, and the missions we will take on—are absolutely what's going to be taught in that centre.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

I'm sharing my time and I have just over two minutes, so I'll send it over to Ms. Alleslev.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Leona Alleslev Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Gerretsen, because I'd like to continue that conversation.

There's a difference between support training, particularly integrating women into support training, and operational training. There are other countries in the world, perhaps some of the Scandinavian countries, that have done a better job than we have, even in terms of the support training, and there really isn't any country, as far as I know, that leads in terms of women, peace, and security in operations training.

Is part of this initiative to look at ways that we can leapfrog and become a centre of excellence in that area of integrating women into peace and security that doesn't currently exist?

4:50 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence

Jody Thomas

That's absolutely the goal of the centre, and it's Canada's vision of peace support operations, but in terms of the detail, I'll ask the vice-chief to provide you with some information.

4:50 p.m.

LGen Alain Parent

We have the peacekeeping centre here, where we train our personnel and other peacekeepers to go out and operate in the field according to our Canadian values and the priorities that we put on women, peace, and security and on not having child soldiers in operations. Then in turn, those who have been trained can train others as well, so there's another component in which we project Canadian people to train others and help out in these areas.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Leona Alleslev Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON

Can you give us a time frame for when we might actually see it? Then, because I am the metrics girl, how will we measure our success in that area?

4:55 p.m.

LGen Alain Parent

Right now it's still new and embryonic, and it's part of our SSE campaign plan to bring all the initiatives together. At this time, I don't have a time frame.

As you know, there are 111 initiatives and lettered things, so our challenge right now is to take all of the good that's in the policy and to time phase and sequence it. That part is in the early stage of the implementation of the SSE, but I cannot give you the details right now on exact dates and specifics.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Leona Alleslev Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON

I'll look forward to the update the next time you come.

Thank you very much.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Stephen Fuhr

Mr. Hoback.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you again to the witnesses.

I'm going to discuss cybersecurity and making sure we're properly prepared for that. I see that Canadian Special Operations are getting some $15.8 million for special IT products to improve their command's ability to handle intelligence and data. Then we see another $12.3 million for the Communications Security Establishment centre of excellence for cyber operations.

How do those two interact, or do they interact? How do you take cybersecurity on defence and put it across the whole spectrum? There are economic implications to a cyber-attack. There could be power grid implications from a cyber-attack, for example, and 25% of our commerce is now done on the Internet. Are we taking cyber-threats seriously enough, and what are we doing to break down the silos that we actually have government-wide with regard to preparation in place to do that?

4:55 p.m.

Greta Bossenmaier Chief, Communications Security Establishment, Department of National Defence

I can start off and other folks might want to join in, in terms of what National Defence in particular is doing.

With regard to your question of whether we are taking cybersecurity seriously enough, I can tell you that at the Communications Security Establishment, cybersecurity is absolutely one of our key priorities. We've been in the business of protecting the Government of Canada's information for the last 70 years. I can also tell you that it sure has evolved over those 70 years. To your point, if you look at the use of technology today, not only in terms of how the government is delivering its services but also in terms of how Canadians are using it and how businesses are using it, cybersecurity and IT now permeate almost every aspect of life.

From a Communications Security Establishment perspective, we take it very seriously and we have a broad range of cybersecurity services, everything from providing advice and guidance to Government of Canada departments to actually defending the Government of Canada's networks and also defending the Government of Canada's most sensitive secrets.

The funding you referred to, which is in the supplementary estimates, is to help ensure that we can try to keep ahead of this very diverse and challenging and changing cybersecurity environment that we deal with. This investment is to help us to maintain the robust cybersecurity posture of the Government of Canada in light of the changing dynamics.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

It's not only the Department of Defence, but it takes on those possibilities for other departments.

4:55 p.m.

Chief, Communications Security Establishment, Department of National Defence

Greta Bossenmaier

Absolutely. One of the key roles of the Communications Security Establishment is to provide that advice, guidance, and service to protecting Government of Canada systems, writ large, and not only those of the Department of National Defence.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

One of the things I've asked this committee to do—and actually we haven't had this motion passed and I hope we will have it passed—is to look at cybersecurity and actually at what our policy should be in balancing the protection of people's individual rights while getting the appropriate legislation in place so that you can actually do your job in an appropriate manner.

I personally feel we're at more risk of a cyber-attack than we are of any other attack, so I just want to make sure you feel we have those resources. Are we taking it seriously enough?

How are you finding working with other departments? Are they taking it seriously enough? Other departments have come under attacks in the last few years that have put them into serious harm. What is your opinion on that?