Evidence of meeting #74 for National Defence in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was going.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Patrick Finn  Assistant Deputy Minister, Materiel, Department of National Defence
Jody Thomas  Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Charles Lamarre  Commander, Military Personnel Command, Department of National Defence
Alain Parent  Acting Vice-Chief of the Defence Staff, Department of National Defence
Claude Rochette  Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Deputy Minister, Finance, Department of National Defence
Elizabeth Van Allen  Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Environment, Department of National Defence
Greta Bossenmaier  Chief, Communications Security Establishment, Department of National Defence

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Through you, yesterday North Korea fired another missile. It was a test...13,000 kilometres. B.C.'s coast is less than 10,000 kilometres away.

I see in the supplementary estimates (B) that there will be funding for radiological, nuclear...the $14,529,500 line. Is any of that money going towards mitigating, preventing...or protecting Canadians from a potential nuclear missile attack?

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

On the funding we have, I'll answer the question about the support that our Canadian special forces provide. This is a very specialized capability. They need to stay at the cutting edge of this to make sure that regardless of whether it's nuclear or biological they have the right training and the right equipment.

On your bigger question in terms of an actual attack, that is far greater. For example, we work very closely with our allies, especially the U.S., when it comes to monitoring the situation with North Korea. From day one, we started looking at the various threats. We look at this from a defence policy review perspective, hence the reason why we had this committee look at what I felt was probably the most important piece of the defence policy, which is the security side of it.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Okay, but are we protected? Canadians need to know if we are protected, because now one can reach our mainland. Are we protected from a national defence point of view?

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

In terms of your question, those missiles can actually reach almost anywhere in the world, right? We're monitoring this very closely. We are looking at not only what we have right now with the work we do with NORAD, where we have a seamless transition in terms of the reporting that happens to the actions that are taken, but more importantly, at what we have to do get them to de-escalate. That's why diplomacy is so important while we work from the defence side of things.

On that NORAD modernization piece that I've talked a lot about, we have to look at not only the current threat we face, but this is also a defence policy for into the future. I want to make sure that we look at all perils or threats. On the air threat you talked about, absolutely, we need to be very concerned about that, but we have to look at the land and we have to look under the water as well.

Those are the things we're going to be looking at. That's one of the reasons why we put it right in the defence policy as to how we're going to be doing the NORAD modernization and, plus that, the north warning system.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

All right. Thank you very much.

You talked about the back pay and money going towards “environmental and special allowances”. We know that the special allowances for the special forces were clawed back if members are injured and have not recovered within 180 days. Is any of that money you mentioned going to be ameliorating the situation where these special forces had no advance notice that their allowances were going to be decreased and, in some cases, clawed back?

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Ms. Gallant, I think one of the important aspects.... We have to make sure that we don't put out disingenuous information. We're committed to making sure that we support the Canadian Armed Forces, and it's incumbent upon all of us in terms of making sure that for the policy we put in place we get the right advice, and that where it's not being done well, we give the right advice. I've been extremely open about this right from day one.

We've increased the pay. In fact, we've actually retroactively gone back to 2014. You have to answer the question: why wasn't the pay raise given back in those days? We've backdated pay to 2014 and increased the benefits. We're actually not only putting the right benefits in place, but also, the chain of command, from the chief of defence on down, is making sure they have the right system to look after the people.

I'd like to throw this to the vice—

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

I have very little time left, sir, so—

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

I'm happy to get the vice-chief to answer some of that question for you.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

I know why there was a delay: their increases are tied to increases for other civilian forces employees.

Is any of this money going towards the announced “seamless transition” of pay when soldiers are medically released? On June 7, you announced that, starting then, when people are released, they won't have to wait months and sometimes almost a year to have their medical pension start. They've already lost their pay because they've been medically released, nor do they have the medical treatment in place. Is any of the money going towards that?

You also mentioned that we were going to be divesting ourselves of certain real estate. Could you provide a list of the different armouries and other real estate? Armouries aren't just for recruiting and training. They're also community centres. It's really important that the different communities know which armouries are on the list to be closed.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Stephen Fuhr

Unfortunately, there's no time to answer that. I'm sorry, Minister. I'm going to have to yield the floor to Ms. Alleslev.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Leona Alleslev Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON

Minister, I note that the supplementary estimates also include funds for the United Nations Peacekeeping Defence Ministerial Conference that was held recently in Canada, in Vancouver. I also note that one of the conversations we were having was around peace, women, and security. I know that we have United Nations Resolution 1325. NATO also has a corresponding resolution 1325. The UN has had it since 2000, which is 17 years ago. Can you give us an idea of what Canada is proposing in terms of women, peace, and security, and again, why now and why Canada?

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

I was very proud to host over 80 nations to talk about peace and support operations around the world and bringing in new initiatives. As you just stated, resolution 1325, look how long ago it was. It was about what are we going to do about women, peace, and security. Our numbers on peace operations have minusculely increased. What we want to do as Canada is look at where the needs are of the United Nations and also contributing nations, if we're now going to be re-engaging. That's what we're trying to do. The initiative that Minister Freeland announced is going to have overall the wider impact of encouraging other nations to increase their women and peace operations. More importantly, the first issue we have to address, which allowed us to have this discussion in Vancouver, was the need to increase the number of women in our armed forces if we're going to increase the number of women in peace and support operations. We had a lot of discussions about that, too.

I don't think I need to go into the research side of why this is important. This is the right thing to do if you want to reduce conflict, but more importantly, our initiatives, which we outlined, were about helping to improve the system and doing it in a way that it's what the UN wanted. They wanted smart pledging, making sure that in missions that are there, for each mission, one nation provides the capability, and then it's pulled out, making sure they have all the right capabilities seamlessly through until the conflict reduces. That's what we're trying to achieve.

I was also very proud of the Vancouver principles that are preventing child soldiers. I want to give tremendous kudos to General Dallaire on this. Reducing the number of kids being recruited into these organizations is going to reduce conflict. This is another opportunity for us, for Canada, to step up and offer an initiative on how to do this, and put it into our training system. I'm very proud, and I'm very excited about the implementation of this.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Leona Alleslev Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON

You mentioned, of course, that in order to lead by example and contribute more women to peacekeeping operations, we need to have more women in the military as well. Now, I was a female in the military in the 1980s and 1990s, and we set targets back then to achieve 25%. If we look at the stats, we maybe haven't achieved that yet.

I notice in “Strong, Secure, Engaged”, that we have set real targets, and it's exciting to see. I know that, with the conversation that's going on and the things that you've been doing, this time it's different. Can you give us some idea of how it's different? Why now, and why is Canada positioned to be a leader in this conversation?

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

First of all, I think it goes without saying that you can't ignore 50% of the population. I said this when I was in Halifax at the Halifax International Security Forum, and naysayers just have to get over it. What's different now is the fact that leadership matters, and we have the right leadership, the right leadership from our Prime Minister. We have the right leadership within our military, and it's going to be infused all the way down. Plus, it's also an important thing to do.

There's a lot more work that needs to be done on this. This is about making sure that we have the right structure in place to get the right talent to come up, making sure women also have those key leadership positions, and making sure we have the right mentors to take the response. I know that General Vance is absolutely seized with this.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Leona Alleslev Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON

It certainly is a difficult topic, and there are still many not just in the military but in society who are saying, “Well, yes, but women don't belong. There are certain roles for women, and certain roles not for women, particularly in the military.” Even the people in my riding are saying, “Well, are you really sure? The door is open. The reason you don't have women in the military is they're not interested in doing this, and they really shouldn't be, anyway.”

How can we as civilians, how can we as citizens in Canada, not only in uniform but out of uniform, further this conversation to really make the point why women in peace and security matter?

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Stephen Fuhr

Again we're out of time, so unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to let you answer.

Yes, Ms. Gallant.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Before you dismiss our witness—

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Stephen Fuhr

We have one more question.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Okay.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Stephen Fuhr

Mr. Garrison, you have the floor.

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I am proud to represent CFB Esquimalt, home of the Canadian Pacific fleet.

These estimates are our chance to ask accountability questions. Last year, after you had to leave, I talked to General Vance about this. A lot of facilities on our base and in many bases across the country still have asbestos in them.

We have had Canadian Forces members, both in the forces and civilian members, working in facilities where asbestos is yet to be removed. In particular, at CFB Esquimalt we have barracks which should have been condemned 10 years ago that still have asbestos in them. I'm wondering, Mr. Minister, if in the supplementary estimates there is enough money to complete that work on asbestos removal and do things like replace the barracks at CFB Esquimalt.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Before I hand it off to Elizabeth, I'll say that when you don't put enough resources in to the maintenance of buildings, this is what you end up dealing with. When we talk about greening government and making sure our infrastructure reflects that investment, this is going to take it into account. Not only are we looking at new buildings and modernizing buildings but we're going to be putting in a good system to look after the infrastructure we have as well.

November 29th, 2017 / 4:40 p.m.

Elizabeth Van Allen Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Environment, Department of National Defence

Thank you, Minister.

I'll start by indicating that the health and safety of Canadian Armed Forces members, our DND civilians, as well as the public is the priority for the Department of National Defence. Since 1987 we have been ensuring that asbestos-containing materials are not used in new construction or any major renovations. We have developed policies and procedures as well with respect to asbestos, ensuring health and safety for all our personnel.

With respect to the asbestos you mentioned, it was found October 26 when we were working on hangar 7. There is an ongoing construction project there to repurpose a portion of the hangar. Asbestos was a known risk, and all the appropriate monitoring and procedures were in place.

In the initial assessment, it was determined that the heating, ventilation, and air conditioning system needed to be cleaned, and during that process some airborne asbestos had been detected. Certainly, the area was immediately shut down to test, and the appropriate measures were put in place to manage it. It was determined that it was surface asbestos dust. The proper cleanup is under way, and the appropriate monitoring is ongoing.

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

With respect, I think that's a good project, but I think we're not hitting the mark I was asking about. In CFB Esquimalt, there was asbestos in a lot of the classrooms. Again, specifically there is the issue of replacing the barracks.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

On that note, if there's any risk to our people, it's an immediate priority.