National Defence Committee on March 20th, 2018

[Jody Thomas]

Absolutely. We have to look at every individual's case, change the record, and resubmit it into the system, so that is going on on a case-by-case basis, not because we're waiting but because you can't do it in bulk. Each person is an individual, and you have to adjust the service details person by person.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

You're doing that now.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Yes, not only a commitment but we are actually working on this. We need to make sure it's done well, right?

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

I'm disappointed that Admiral Bennett's not here with us this morning to talk about Operation Honour in detail. First I want to acknowledge the $800,000 allocated for families affected by domestic violence. I think that's an important initiative in the budget.

We have heard, or at least I have heard locally, lots of concerns about that the resources provided to make sure that Operation Honour—which I'm not criticising at all as an initiative—is effective down through all the ranks aren't adequate, that there's not enough money for the training, and that there's not enough money to make sure that the survivors' support programs are in place.

I wonder what progress we're making in this budget on providing more resources to Operation Honour.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Operation Honour, in terms of what we're trying to achieve, is not just strictly what the operation itself is. It's about looking at the Canadian Armed Forces as a whole. Under our defence policy, the people are our number one priority. This all goes into it. This is not just about addressing each case but also about making sure that we create the environment from the time we recruit and about how things are going to be done.

We will make sure—it's not just about Operation Honour. How do we create the appropriate environment in the Canadian Armed Forces to allow everybody to succeed in a harassment-free workplace?

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Part of that, of course—

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

It's right on seven minutes, so I'm going to have to yield the floor to MP Spengemann.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, it's great to have you back along with your senior leadership team. Welcome.

You've just returned from Iraq and Kuwait, and you met with key officials, allies, and Canadian military forces and staff to get an update on the progress in the region.

I am wondering if you can convey to the committee how, in your assessment, Operation Impact is going and how the funding that's requested is going to enable us to carry out our responsibilities under that mission.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I had the privilege of returning from Kuwait and Iraq, where I got to not only thank our Canadian Armed Forces members but also meet with the key leadership.

Progress has actually gone better than planned. In terms of the campaign plan, we're actually about eight months ahead of what we originally planned, which is a phenomenal good-news story.

What this means is that Daesh right now cannot hold ground, which is a good thing. Now we're doing the assessment of what we need to do to make sure the Iraqi security forces have the right training capacity to hold on to what they have, but also more importantly, to not allow themselves to be put into a situation like they have had in the past.

We're looking at capacity-building needs and at preventing any resurgence of Daesh. I got to speak with General Funk, the U.S. commander on the ground. Right now, General Vance is actually looking at areas where we can do the capacity building, and at where NATO fits in, and also at the wider picture of making sure that there is political stability and unity in the country.

A lot of work has been done, and now we're at the stage of making sure that we do a better assessment to make sure we align our assets. I have extended the role to hospitals, because that's a need of the coalition. In terms of capacity building and preventing Daesh from resurging, we are doing some training right now and working with partner forces, but a much more thorough assessment is being done at the moment. When I have been briefed on that, more decisions will be made.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Through “Strong, Secure, Engaged”, the government has committed to leveraging innovators to encourage innovation and accelerate the adoption of new ideas in the defence community.

I understand that the innovation for defence excellence and security initiative, better known as IDEaS, will do this by introducing flexible new approaches to stimulate innovation through a range of activities. These include competitions, contests, networks, and sandboxes to test field concepts.

I'm wondering if you could outline for the committee how this initiative is going to support the Canadian Armed Forces.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

This is one thing I'm extremely excited about. This is where we listen to industry on how they fit into this, but more importantly, this is about setting up the Canadian Armed Forces and looking into the future, 20 years from now. It's making sure that the Canadian Armed Forces have the necessary tools to be relevant. This is about anticipating challenges and looking at problems and having them solved. Rather than us trying to solve the problem, we want to throw problems out to industry and compete the problem itself and look at new ideas. This is about spawning brand new innovation.

As you know, defence innovation is unique. We have some unique challenges. We're confident that this program will not only be able to help solve some of our problems into the future but also help industry as well, to potentially look at new products being developed. This is going to be launched shortly. It is going to fit very well into the wider innovation agenda that our government has announced.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

In a similar vein, the defence engagement program is requesting $600,000, I think, under the revised estimates. I'm wondering if you could share with the committee why this program is important and how it will connect with the other initiative you just mentioned and help to advance the work of the Canadian Forces.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I'm equally excited about this program. This program was cut in the past, during the various reductions that were made before our time. This is making sure that we're reaching out to experts, being able to commission reports, getting them to challenge our views and assumptions, and making sure that we have the best research ideas in defence. More importantly, how do we look at developing new talent in the defence and security field? Mr. Bezan talked about Dave Perry. He's actually a product of this program. This is what we need. We need people who have the right expertise to be able to challenge us and make sure we're moving in the right direction. This new investment will do just that.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Budget 2018, in a very profound and transformative way, takes gender equality very seriously. I wonder if I could take the remaining time to ask you about GBA+, or gender-based analysis plus, and hear your own views and perhaps those of your colleagues. The government proudly renewed its commitment to gender-based analysis across government. I'm wondering with respect to the Canadian Forces if you can give us a status update and let us know your perspective on the way forward on this important commitment.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

As you know, we did not create our defence policy and then do GBA+. It was actually done all the way through, as we developed it. This is a message that we're trying to send very deliberately and very strongly. We want to reflect the population that we serve. Any organization, including ours, will be making sure that we expand the talent pool. It just makes sense. If we don't expand and look at everybody, then we as an organization will be losing out.

The goal is to increase by 1% every single year until we hit a mark of 25% of women in the Canadian Armed Forces, but that is not a benchmark we want to stop at. That's the start, the catalyst to keep going until we actually get to gender parity.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Minister, from the perspective of the recruitment of young women aspiring to join the Canadian Armed Forces, is GBA+ or our focus on gender equality leading to any differences in the way in which we recruit at the moment, to make sure that young women take a look at the Canadian Forces as an employer of choice?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Absolutely. We have looked at this. I have spoken with General Lamarre, who is in charge of the program. This is not just about doing GBA+ analysis. I can't stress this enough. Everywhere I go, this is what I talk about, that it's up to us to create the environment within the Canadian Armed Forces. We have to create an environment for people to succeed. We as leaders have to also lead by example on this in every organization we're at. If we don't, and that issue is not fixed, imagine if we start recruiting; we will lose the best and brightest.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

I'll move now to five-minute questions.

MP Gerretsen, you have the floor.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you, Minister, for being here today.

I want to talk a little bit about the just over $12 million put towards NATO in the supplementary estimates. I know that recently Canada has shown its strong commitment to NATO. I want to go back to a decision that you recently made that followed a decision that had been previously made about the AWACS program, the aerial radar program.

The Harper Conservatives chose to pull out of that program a number of years ago. They justified it using the following reason—that the move makes strategic sense because Canada is looking to develop its own systems, especially when it comes to drones: “Fundamentally, it is about a better way for the government to focus our defence spending, and we’re trying to put more of our defence spending towards Canadian capabilities.”

It was later questioned in the Ottawa Citizen, in an article dating back to December of 2014. It was reported that the previous government's decision to withdraw from NATO’s AWACS program created “quite a problem” for NATO, and that the withdrawal placed the program in a “precarious position”, according to Deputy Commander Paddy Teakle.

Earlier, in February of this year, you announced when you were in Brussels that Canada would be rejoining NATO's AWACS program. I'm wondering if you can speak to the benefit it provides to our allies in our rejoining the NATO AWACS program.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Our government has been very clear on our support for NATO and a multilateral approach. In terms of withdrawing from the program of the previous government, a lot of cuts were made, and I've outlined that, whether it was the deficit reduction action plan they had or the strategic review. That was one of the programs, and how they intend to justify it is up to them.

It created a lot of problems at NATO. When a key founding member withdraws from a very significant program, it then forces other nations to step up. We put them in a very difficult position.

Our re-engagement at NATO was a necessary step, because right now, NATO unity is so important. We need to send a very aggressive message to Russia that NATO matters, NATO unity matters, and solidarity is there. We've done that in terms of an enhanced forward battle group, and we've demonstrated this. The AWACS program is not just about being part of a program; it's also making sure that we take the lessons learned from all the different nations. As I stated, as there are more nations involved in this, we're going to develop better programs as well in interoperability.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

What was the reaction of our allies to that announcement?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

It was ecstatic, especially the U.S., the military leadership. SACEUR himself came up to our ambassador. NATO partner nations are very happy that Canada is stepping up, because our voice matters at the table. When we speak, we speak with credibility. We bring approaches where we don't have certain difficulties that other nations have had. We bring a very neutral voice, but at the same time we send a very strong voice.

I can't stress enough right now how important it is to send a very strong message to Russia, and NATO provides that message.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I'm glad you brought up Russia. There were reports that the AWACS program had a key role in tracking Russian military aircraft during the crisis in Ukraine. As well, there were suggestions from the United States that they have asked NATO to contribute to AWACS in the war against the Islamic State. I wonder if you can comment on why this particular program, the AWACS program, is so important to NATO.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I can't get into the details of the technical side of things, but the air domain and how that operates requires a lot of sophistication. It's not just technology; it's the people who are trained to use it. We've been part of this program, especially with the U.S., for some time and have a lot of experience in it. To stay at the cutting edge, you have to continue to be part of it. We've not only increased our participation in NATO and will do so in the coming future as the air force looks at how many people they actually have, but we're increasing our work with the U.S. as well. This is absolutely critical when it comes to looking at not just NATO defence, but our own aerospace defence.