National Defence Committee on March 20th, 2018

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

MP Gallant.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Minister, in your opening remarks you mentioned that caring for the women and men of the armed forces is the primary focus of our defence policy. Why then have you reversed the recommendation in the SCONDVA quality of life report that provides a tax-free posting allowance? Why have you permitted health care workers who care for our ill and injured soldiers, and many of them are married to serving soldiers or are veterans themselves, to be subjected to thousands of dollars in pay cuts as of this April 1? This includes mental health nurses who work in warrior support, and nurses tasked with safeguarding those deploying to Mali.

How are you going to find the expertise to properly innoculate the people who are going to a country that had eight Ebola cases, when you're cutting the experienced medical personnel and replacing them with people off the street?

Why do pregnant civilian military health care workers married to Canadian Armed Forces members have to go to the human rights tribunal to keep their jobs, even if they accept an across-the-board pay slash?

Also, would you provide to the committee the contracts of the male and female health workers to prove that male workers doing the exact same job as the female workers are not getting paid more than the females in that exact same position?

The Prime Minister stated that ill and injured Canadian Armed Forces members losing their special allowance pay was an unintended negative consequence. What's being done to correct these unintended consequences?

Not a single person who was involved in the consultation process for the new defence policy was in favour of a deployment to Mali. Can you tell us how this deployment to Mali is in Canada's national interest?

Thank you.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Ms. Gallant, I'll be honest with you. I really don't know where you're getting your sources from. We're actually growing our health personnel by 600. We've increased the pay. We've improved the benefits for our members. We are currently putting forward improvements to relocation benefits—which should be approved very soon—that actually increase them so that relocation is better. That will be coming shortly. There is a lot more work that needs to be done, but we're moving as quickly as possible on some of those things. This is one thing, when looking after our people, that we are diligently looking at. The deputy minister, the chief of the defence staff, and I work at this very closely. I can assure you this is having an impact. When I meet soldiers, wherever I go, not only do we talk about the defence policy and what we're doing, but we actually want to hear about the things we have missed so that we can fix some of those things.

When it comes to Mali, when it comes to making a government-level decision on where we go, the military is involved. We take the advice of the chief of the defence staff; he gives me the military advice on what's needed. We have to be engaged in the world if we want to be safe at home. We understand the importance of working with our allies: what's happening in the G5 Sahel is having an impact, not only on us, but also on our partners. With respect to the migrant crisis that's going into Europe, if Europe is affected, we are affected. We need to do our part. We have key capabilities to provide tremendous support to those UN missions and that's what we're doing. We are providing helicopter support, which not many nations can do. The smart pledge approach means we're going in as part of a long-term rotation and we're already in discussion with our partners about who is coming in next. This is about improving security in other parts of the world, and making other people's lives better, because it does impact us directly.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

With respect to where I'm getting these numbers, when the military cannot fill the holes for medical personnel, it employs civilian employees, many of whom are veterans or the spouses of our serving CAF members. As of April 1, these mental health workers, nurses, and pharmacy assistants on bases across Canada are taking an across-the-board pay cut. These are the very people who care for our ill and injured. Every time a soldier with an OSI has to start with a new mental health worker, that's another trauma and frustration for her/his recovery.

Here we have a huge drop in pay and they're married to some of the people being cared for.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

As I said, we are increasing their pay and we're increasing the number of health care workers in the military.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

I'm going to have to leave it there to keep everybody on time and make sure everybody has a chance.

MP Fisher, you have the floor. Five minutes, please.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you, Minister, for being here, and thank you for having your team here as well.

Every year the HMCS Sackville welcomes thousands of visitors to her summer home at the Maritime Museum of the Atlantic on the Halifax waterfront. This 76-year-old ship is an iconic symbol of the Battle of the Atlantic and the sacrifice of those who gave their lives, all those who served, and all those who continue to serve Canada at sea.

The “Sack” was the last remaining corvette of the 269 allied corvettes from the Second World War and she continues to serve as Canada's naval memorial and a national historic site. My constituents, many of them veterans, have long advocated for the restoration and preservation of the HMCS Sackville. Could you provide some details on how the government is going to ensure the long-term preservation of the HMCS Sackville?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

You know my opinion when it comes to the history of the military. It's important for us not only to remember history but to teach it and pass it on to our next generations. They need to realize the tremendous sacrifice made on their behalf that allows them to live the life they live, and more importantly, become engaged with how to prevent tragedies where militaries have to go out and go into conflict.

We were very happy and I just want to thank our deputy minister and the team who were able to find a way to support this. A total of $3.5 million over two years has been made available for a trust, of which $1.4 million will be transferred this year. This will be used for repairs that will address areas of significant deterioration for the vessel and extend its life by eight to 10 years. We are very proud that we were able to do this because it is extremely important. I just want to have the deputy minister talk for a few minutes on this.

[Jody Thomas]

We're very pleased to be able to provide funding for the Sackville, as the minister said. We have a one-time opportunity for up to $3.5 million. We're working with partner departments to provide $100,000 of in-kind work on the Sackville every year. We would be able to do constant maintenance, and she wouldn't fall into the disrepair that she has fallen into over the last few years. That should be able to preserve the Sackville as a memorial to the Battle of the Atlantic in perpetuity.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you very much. I want to go on record to thank you and your team as well for taking this so seriously, Minister. This is something that means an awful lot to the people back home.

Dartmouth—Cole Harbour is home to CFB Shearwater, and of course, we're right across Halifax Harbour from CFB Halifax, so we have a lot of Canadian Armed Forces members in Dartmouth—Cole Harbour.

It's our duty to keep our Canadian Armed Forces safe while they do their very best to keep Canadians safe. I notice $5.8 million in increased spending to, it says here, “improve security for Canadian Armed Forces operations and personnel”. Can you give us some details on that, maybe some specifics on the improvements that will be made to the security for our CAF members?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I will let you talk about the details, Vice, if you have them.

As I mentioned, this is about upgrading our infrastructure, but we also look at it from the security perspective as well. We're constantly now looking at where the priorities are and making the right investments in those areas, so our security for our bases is up to date, making sure our members and their families are safe where they work and where they live.

Vice, do you have any points to add?

[Lieutenant-General Alain J. Parent, Acting Vice-Chief of the Defence Staff, Department of National Defence]

Maybe you'd like to....

[Elizabeth Van Allen, Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Environment, Department of National Defence]

To ensure the safety of our personnel, as the minister is saying, the supplementary estimates (C) include $5.8 million in capital funding for projects to upgrade security at our bases. The funding is being carried forward from fiscal year 2016-17 to 2017-18 due to some delays in the project approval.

We have four projects we are funding from this for physical security upgrades in these estimates: work at the Defence Research and Development Canada facility in Halifax, upgrades to physical security in Dundurn, updates to the security barrier on the South Perimeter Road in Trenton, and the configuring of Alert Boulevard in Trenton.

As well, in addition to those four projects we have these two projects in progress: entry control facilities at Borden and perimeter fencing for facilities at Shilo.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

MP Yurdiga, the floor is yours for five minutes, please.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, on February 23, 2017, in the House of Commons you stated that we will not be buying used aircraft for our air force, so why is the government buying used jet fighters?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

When it comes to our missions that we fly, we didn't have enough aircraft to fly them. I think we can agree that within our NORAD and NATO commitments we have to have a certain number of aircraft to fill those needs.

We were on a path with Boeing to look at the purchase of brand new Super Hornets, but unfortunately, Boeing took an approach that was undermining our Canadian aerospace sector, and the economy and jobs of Canadians are very important to our government; hence, the reason.

We were very fortunate at that time when this came about that Australia was looking at selling its F-18s, the same model we fly. It was very fortunate—

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I'm going to cut you off, Minister. I only have five minutes.

In regard to purchasing the Australian F-18, the international structural test program reveals that the Australian fleet of F-18s were in need of refurbishment, specifically the central barrel replacement.

Minister, how many of the Australian F-18s need central barrel replacement?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I'm happy to answer that in detail.

Pat, do you want to take that?

[Patrick Finn, Assistant Deputy Minister, Materiel, Department of National Defence]

At this point, we have gone and inspected them. It is something we looked at in our aircraft as well. Very few, if any, will require replacement.

We have had a long-term relationship with the Australians, where we have developed a fatigue life management plan over decades of working together. We're very comfortable with the state of the aircraft we've examined.

We actually have done more work on our aircraft. They decided to switch to a new aircraft sooner. We're going to induct the aircraft we require into the same fatigue life program we have ours in. We're quite comfortable that the hours we will get out of them will be pretty consistent with our own aircraft and will operate the fleet up to 2032.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you very much.

How much does the government predict it will spend on repairs to the used F-18s to bring them to combat-ready status? Remember: combat-ready status.

[Patrick Finn]

From an Australian perspective, they're in combat-ready status today, so they continue to operate those aircraft. We're in discussion with them about which of the aircraft have the most life remaining. They will be like all of our aircraft. They will continuously be cycled through maintenance, including heavy maintenance, so they will be maintained in combat-ready status.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

What I don't understand here is your party's approach. You wanted a competition. We have a full competition, and we are actually competing for more aircraft than your party asked for. However, we want to increase the number of aircraft so that we can actually fly the missions. I have a difficult time understanding why you have a concern with this because we have a full competition to replace up to 88, but at the same time, we're purchasing more for our women and men in the air force so they can actually live up to the commitments that we, as a nation, signed up for.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you for that, Minister, but my time is limited here.

Minister, can you table any reports indicating the current conditions of the Australian F-18s and the cost to bring them to Canada?