National Defence Committee on March 20th, 2018

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you very much.

Of the $12.2 million that's being spent on NATO, can you elaborate on what that's being spent on specifically or that's being requested for NATO?

[Jody Thomas]

The funding is contributing to the NATO military budget and their security investment program. It's used to cover operating and maintenance costs of NATO military structure and activities, including deployed operations.

The CFO can tell you about the mechanics of how NATO funding works, but this isn't our getting money for a specific operation, this is our overall contribution to NATO and what's coming in supplementary estimates (C).

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

There are some requests in the supplementaries for increases to operations Reassurance and Unifier. Specifically, can you comment on Operation Unifier and whether the Canadian Forces will continue to train Ukrainian forces in a range of capabilities? Is that what the money is specifically being put toward?

[Jody Thomas]

I'll ask the vice chief to respond to the operational questions.

[Lieutenant-General Alain J. Parent]

The support to Ukraine is unwavering, and will continue as long as the Government of Canada tells us to continue that support, with approximately 200 Canadian Armed Forces personnel.

The training is focused on small arms training, explosive ordnance disposal, military policing, medical training, and modernizing logistics. So far, we have contributed over $16 million in non-lethal military equipment to Ukraine forces, with up to $7.25 million more to be delivered by the end of March. The estimated cost of the renewed mission is $57.75 million over two years. National Defence assumes $50.5 million of that money, and Global Affairs Canada $7.25 million. The Canadian Armed Forces joint task force in Ukraine has trained approximately 5,500 Ukrainian soldiers as of February 1, 2018.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

The increase in the supplementaries is specifically with respect to continuing the operation to help train in terms of increasing their capabilities.

[Claude Rochette]

The amount of money is specifically to pay for reservists, their rate of pay plus allowances, TD, travel, communications. We also have real life support which is the cost to maintain the camp. We also have $170,000 on IT that is required for that operation.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you. That's all I have, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

There is still a little bit of time. Does anybody want to chime in for about a minute and a half?

[Leona Alleslev, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I'd like to follow up on my colleague's question around NATO common funding. Not necessarily part of the supplementary (C) conversation, but because we are studying NATO, could you just elaborate on the fundamental difference between us sending money for common funding versus the money that we spend domestically for our own capability in capital equipment, and how that contributes to the 2% NATO commitment of burden-sharing?

[Claude Rochette]

Basically, being part of NATO, it uses a formula to determine the contribution. Canada contributes roughly $170 million; $140 million from DND and between $30 and $35 million from Global Affairs. This is our contribution to NATO for the operation of the organization. It's a military budget plus the program budget.

Normally, when you look at the contribution percentage that we talk about, there are two components: the 2%, but also a 20% capital investment. I think this is what you're referring to. Any capital investment that we have in National Defence is included in the formula when looking at our contribution. Currently, we are just shy of the 20%, around 19.6%, if I recall exactly. We're almost there.

Regarding SSE, by 2026-27 we are going to increase that to 32%.

[Leona Alleslev, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Outstanding.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

You have about three and a half minutes left if you wish to continue.

[Leona Alleslev, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I would very much like to do so. Thank you.

We started the conversation about cybersecurity. Could you expand a little bit?

As we see the blurring of lines between civilian organizations and the threats to civilian command and control structures, whether it's denial of service for hydro or infrastructure, or whether it's misinformation on civilian platforms like Facebook, over which we have no control of the data, or our email, which isn't within Canadians' control, can we ensure we don't have a CSE stovepipe, a military stovepipe, a CSIS stovepipe, and then a whole bunch of civilian organizations that are at risk, but that affect our overall sovereignty?

[Greta Bossenmaier]

As I mentioned earlier, a safe and secure cyberspace truly is important for the stability and the prosperity of our country, and it's a core mandate of the Communications Security Establishment's mission and our role mandate.

To your question about how we govern ourselves around cybersecurity, if I can put it that way, I'll offer a couple of comments. First of all, I can assure the committee that up to this point we work very closely with all of the various partners that you mentioned; with the public safety department, for example, which runs a response centre that deals directly with citizens and with the private sector.

We work very closely with our colleagues in Shared Services Canada. We are focusing on protecting the Government of Canada's systems through a very robust process. We have more than a billion malicious probes a day now into Government of Canada systems, which we are protecting with our colleagues in Shared Services Canada.

We also work very closely with our partners in the Canadian Armed Forces, ensuring that the Canadian Armed Forces' systems are secure as well.

More and more we're working with private industry as well, to speak to your point. They're trying to ensure that their overall systems are secure, and we are doing everything we can to operate as a bit of an ecosystem, to ensure that we're sharing best practices and lessons learned.

No one can have all the answers in this field; we recognize that. How, then, do we ensure that we're working collectively across all those various communities? The item that I mentioned was put forward in budget 2018 is a bit of a milestone in terms of ensuring that we operate even more closely together.

It talks about the establishment of a Canadian centre for cybersecurity. It would be an operational hub: one central, trusted source of advice and guidance for the Government of Canada, for private industry, for Canadians writ large, unifying all of our cybersecurity operations, our advice, and guidance into a consolidated centre. The centre, again, was just announced. We also see the centre as having an important role for response when a cyber-incident occurs, so that there is a common place to go for advice and guidance.

I understand my time is up, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you very much.

MP Bezan.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In Operation Impact, we committed to providing about $10 million worth of weapons to the Kurdish peshmerga. My understanding is that those weapons were purchased and are sitting in storage in Montreal. When are we planning to actually deliver that military equipment and aid to the peshmerga?

[Jody Thomas]

You're correct that the weapons have been purchased. It is critical that we ensure end-user agreements are in place that accord with the laws of armed conflict and all applicable international law before any equipment is delivered.

This equipment is being stored in Oman and in Montreal until such time as these conditions are met.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

What's your expected time frame for those agreements to be signed or even for whether they will be signed?

[Jody Thomas]

They have not been signed, to my knowledge, and I would not want to predict a time when they would be, at this point.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Who's leading the discussions to get those agreements in place?

[Jody Thomas]

It is the department of foreign affairs, Global Affairs Canada.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I want to return to the issue of the cut of special allowance pay to ill and injured soldiers who cannot return to work within six months.

Why was that policy instituted? It wasn't in place before. Do you not see this as being a deterrent, for those suffering from mental health illnesses and injuries, to actually stepping forward, if they suspect that they could lose their special allowance pay? I know that our special operation forces members could see upwards of $23,000 a year cut.

[Jody Thomas]

It's a very difficult question, and I know it's one that has been discussed at this committee previously. If special forces members who are serving in the forces are injured, they're given six months during which the allowances continue. At the end of six months, the determination is made whether they can return to that function or not, but it is an allowance for serving special forces members.

If in seven months they can go back to work, they go back to their position and they get the allowance. If they can't return to work after six months, what's critical is that we provide rehabilitation services, medical care, mental health care for the employee so that we can return them to work.

The allowance, though, is for those who are deployed in the field, conducting the work of special forces. Unfortunately—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

More than just special forces. The special allowance also goes to fighter jet pilots, to submariners—