National Defence Committee on March 11th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Thank you very much.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Mr. Spengemann.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Madam Chair, thank you very much.

I'd like to pick up on the point of the pilot shortage, Minister.

To what extent are we investing upstream in the cadet program, particularly the air cadet program? Is there an opportunity there to generate even greater interest in the profession of flying, the discipline of flying, and the skills related to it and to focus on the intake that way?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

The reason I'm chuckling on this is that our cadet program is absolutely amazing. Even in my own riding, I have an air cadet program that started with just a few cadets and it's just ballooning. The diversity that you see there is absolutely amazing. I actually have asked the leadership: How are the cadets getting this? They're representative of their community, and there's interest there.

We do have to be mindful that the cadet program was purposely separated from the military, but at the same time, I think the military is like any other profession, and we need to be able to showcase this.

Part of it is bringing some of the programs back into it, for example, some of the glider training and the summer camps as well. The more you do in real activity into that leadership program, the more it allows them to learn about potential opportunities for them in the future.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Minister, thank you for that.

The other synergy that exists, if that's the right label, is that we also have a civilian pilot shortage. The attraction there is that civilian airlines love to hire military pilots because of the standard of training, the flight hours and the quality of flight hours.

Is there more that we could do to signal to young pilots—and I'll take you in moment to the diversity and inclusion question that's added to this—to look not just at a military career but at a subsequent civilian career that could lead to management positions in the aviation sector and all kinds of other opportunities as well, including rotary wing flying?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Showcasing that opportunity is very important. One thing I will stress that civilian aviation can't do is fly the type of missions that are flown in the air force. Everyone thinks about fighters. I've actually gone to the school where they teach our pilots. I don't know what's going to happen when the new Top Gun comes out, but a lot of people want to be helicopter pilots. I'll be honest with you; when I fly in the Chinook, I'm amazed. It's one of my favourite aircraft to be in.

When I have the opportunity to fly with our Hercules pilots in operational aircraft, I ask them why they are doing it and what the issues are. Their response will answer your question. They say, “Sir, we can't do this anywhere else. We're flying into small landing areas in Africa. When you get to do real things, that's what keeps us in.”

When we're doing more with our air force around the world and utilizing it—and, boy, are we ever—that's a retention tool as well.

To be honest with you, I get to meet people from all over. I am even seeing significant improvement in diversity as well, the more we reach out. I think it is an untapped resource that we're getting better at.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Minister, I want to pick up on that very point and take you back to our visits to the Mali mission. I mentioned a young female officer who was in conversation with us on the medical questions that she put to us and the solutions that were put forward in the sense of bringing plasma into theatre. She's a female officer, part of the flight crew of a Chinook helicopter.

What do we need to do to gain even greater interest from women, from minorities, in the Canadian Forces? Maybe we need to look at very specific examples like that one.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

There are many things that we are doing and many things that we still need to do. We need to get the message out. A huge priority is fixing the culture inside the Canadian Armed Forces, which we are working on 110%.

Women need to be able to see themselves and think, “I, too, can do that.” That's what we need to do. We need to encourage our leadership—like General Carignan, who is at NATO—to share their experience—Chris Whitecross and especially our NCOs. I've served with many of them. Sometimes they're reluctant to share their stories because they don't want to talk about what they've done. They think they are just part of the team.

There are a lot of things that we can do. We're going to be looking at ways to improve that. We're trying to put some science behind this as well.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

As you mentioned, that includes reservists as well. They are much closer to us, as MPs in the community, to use as channels for telling stories.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

We need to look at how we optimize the reserves even more to make them more operationally effective.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Thank you.

Madam Gallant.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

On Saturday, there were two Russian Bear aircraft flying in U.K. airspace, in Irish airspace and intruding into Norway's airspace. We had the oil market tanking with the price war between Saudi Arabia and Russia. On Monday, we had more Russian planes in Canadian airspace and U.S. airspace, tying up four fighter jets, two Canadian and two American. Then we have today the WHO's declaring a pandemic. It's just when our attention is distracted with something else that Putin always seems to make a move.

I'm looking through the estimates, but I don't see any money in here to upgrade our NORAD, our northern defence detection capabilities. That's what General Vance said is the greatest threat right now. Where's the money for our modernized NORAD?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

First of all, if we go back into the defence policy, we committed to upgrading NORAD because it's a significant project. The only reason it wasn't done is that it's going to take greater study with the U.S. to decide what needs to be done.

The defence policy was about putting a plan in place where we actually have all the money that's there. What we didn't want to do was put out a plan that didn't have the money in it. That's why it was in the defence policy that we were going to get it done, and now it's in my mandate letter.

Having said this, now we have launched internally the plan towards how to get there. Let's not also forget that we've already made investments into the early investments to set ourselves up. We launched three satellites last year that would have been up a little bit sooner, but the company wasn't able to put them up. We have two more satellite projects. We're putting the right research and development up in the north. We're doing some cutting-edge research up in the north to take advantage of that. With regard to the Arctic and offshore patrol ships, we've now decided to purchase a sixth. The first one is going to be delivered to us as well.

There are the exercises that we're also conducting up in the north. Let's not forget the work that we do with CSE on the cyber side.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

I wanted to talk about the north warning system, though.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Exactly—

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

You talked about satellites.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

You said NORAD, though.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

We know that with the curvature of the Earth, the satellites can't beam it down to where we need it in time. What about the infrastructure on the ground that we need to detect what is coming overhead before it actually gets here?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

The north warning system is....

We will be investing in that as well, but—

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

How much?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

In addition to this, we also have to take a look at.... What I'm trying to do is actually provide additional information that I think is far more relevant.

We have to start looking to the future. What technology is going to replace the north warning system? Right now, some very good work is being done to look at what the next technology is that NORAD modernization will allow us to take advantage of. We invested in the old domain awareness system and satellites. Even from a search and rescue perspective, we're investing in new satellite technology that will help with search and rescue.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

In addition, you will be putting infrastructure on the ground, but you mentioned earlier that you're trying to get away from the diesel fuel and diesel operations with respect to electricity generation.

Would you be looking at the small, modular reactor technology, which is emissions-free, and having that to power your early north warning system?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

When it comes to how we power our system, it is extremely complex work. That type of advice will come from our specialists, our experts and especially our scientists.

These are the challenges that we have thrown out. What's important to us is that we want to move toward greener and cleaner technology, but making sure that we have the capability to deliver for our Arctic sovereignty is extremely important.

Let's not forget the Canadians who live up there. Our sovereignty is making sure that we support them as well. The exercises that we conduct, when it comes to search and rescue, other types of response, how we live up there, and investing in their equipment, are all happening as well.