Nineteen suicides last year?
Evidence of meeting #3 for National Defence in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sure.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #3 for National Defence in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sure.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Yes, it's about the same. We're also looking at breaking it down by region. We want to be able to see any type of patterns we need to identify. I don't want to get into too many details here for privacy reasons, whether it's Rangers or a certain area. What was happening in the area? What was the command structure? Was anything going on?
We're looking at the wider aspect and drilling down to the needs and micro needs. I can assure you, in this case, we'll put in any type of resources that are necessary. We also have to look at other things as well, the steps we're taking. Peer support plays a very important role. I still stay in touch with certain people who need the support. I attend Soldier On events, which I did just recently, making sure that those programs are well supported.
VAC also supports programs, for example, the veterans transition network that was started and expanded in Vancouver. They also provide a lot of support.
It's making sure that we're as wide-reaching as possible, but also are able to support at the micro-level while looking at whether we have any regional issues as well.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Sven Spengemann Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Madam Chair, thank you very much.
Minister Sajjan, welcome back, and congratulations on your continued role as Minister of National Defence. Thank you for your service, and that of your senior management colleagues. A very special thanks to Lieutenant-General Lanthier as well. Very best wishes on your next steps.
Minister, you put it in very compelling terms, and I would like to focus my time on UN peace operations. You spoke about CAF capabilities and contributions. That's a very good way to remember the framework.
Vote 1(b) in the supplementary estimates asks for adjustments of just over $349 million. I wanted to use the occasion to get you to comment on our peace operations, particularly Mali and Uganda. This committee had the chance to visit and you had as well. Members of the committee went to Bamako and Gao last year and saw the tremendous capabilities of the women and men who served, including very cutting-edge work in bringing plasma into theatre. We had occasion to speak to a young female officer who explained to us just what that meant in our capacity to save lives.
How are things going on the concept of smart pledging our deployments and missions? What lessons have we learned? What's your vision for the future of UN peace operations and our contributions to them?
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
The investments we're making are for the mission we just completed in Mali. We do have some support personnel still there, as well as a tactical airlift capability that we're providing out of Uganda.
The vision that we have put forward is a whole-of-government approach. Rather than just saying what we're willing to provide and letting the UN then figure out where it's needed, it's always been—whether it's part of a coalition or even NATO—us asking what those needs are and how we can provide support. That's why the smart pledge concept was very important, because it's what was asked for by the United Nations.
I would remind the committee of what the smart pledge concept is all about. All the missions have high-level capabilities that only select nations can provide. Through that, if one nation is providing all the high-level capability, it can become a burden to one nation. Smart pledge is about nations coming together on a one-year rotation, so that a mission will always have that capability.
When we stepped up for the first pledge there, we worked with the United Nations and Romania to bring them online. I've had discussions with the two undersecretary-generals at the UN regarding which nations will be coming forward next. The goal is to get four to five nations to sign up, so we can get into a rotation. Once we have the confidence through the UN that we'll have four to five nations as a part of it, then we as a government can consider getting into a rotation.
In those particular areas, it shows what capabilities can be impacted. Medical evacuations, it may seem, don't have a direct impact on operations. However, as you and the committee were briefed, how we move blood is related to the distance that we could fly, because it wasn't in a helicopter's range. It was related to the transportation of blood. Having the medical personnel on board allowed the patrols on the ground to go further. That was a way of actually making the mission far more effective. That's how we passed that experience on to Romania.
We're now working with the United Nations on some of the other smart pledge concepts. As I have stated, we need to make sure that the mission is right, the troops that we have provided are going to have the right impact, and they will make the decisions accordingly, because at the end of the day, this is about improving the mission, not just about us getting a check in a box.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Sven Spengemann Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Could you elaborate a bit more on the whole-of-government approach? This is incredibly important in peacekeeping operations, including the tail end and the wind-up of a mission, and the governance work that takes place once the political space has been opened up by a military mission. What does whole-of-government mean?
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
I'm glad you mentioned that. This is a concept that Canada has been trying to implement for some time. Other nations have also come on board.
The military buys the time for the other work to be done. You need to put the right development money and capacity building into the region as well. At the end of the day, you're trying to address the root cause of the conflict. In each area, the root cause is going to be different, so we need to put in the right enablers. If we can't do it alone, the military buys us time.
I can give you an example. In Mali, through development programs, we were investing through a German project to take a desert and turn it back into a place where you could actually do agriculture. That is a way of not only providing food to people but also teaching youngsters how to take that on.
At the end of the day, you need the employment. The significant unemployment rate for youth is staggering, and the percentage of youth under 20 is also quite staggering, so that aspect of providing those jobs is absolutely important, while we deal with trying to provide that safe space in the wider region.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
Minister, on January 27, you answered Order Paper Question No. 184. It asked about the number of projects in which National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces are currently behind schedule. The response was there are 117 projects that are delayed. Yet, the spokesperson from your office said that 90% are delivered within budget and scope. That's an old statistic that goes back to 2017.
Why haven't you updated that statistic, and why are you misleading Canadians by putting out that information?
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Mr. Bezan, we are absolutely not here to mislead Canadians. We are here to move the projects forward as quickly as possible. I would be happy to provide any information. I've been very open with all members in trying to take these issues into account, and improving how we work at National Defence. I would be happy to get you the updated information.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
If you could actually update that information—
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Which projects—capital projects, infrastructure projects...? For example, you talked about delays. That's a very wide aspect of looking at it, because you have to drill down to each one. In some cases, for example, a project is delayed because we want to make sure the requirements are met. The point is that we want to move forward as quickly as possible, but at the end of the day get the actual project that we—
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
If you could provide that information to the committee, I'd appreciate it.
I want to move on. Your department has now spent $3 billion on buying 25 rusted-out old Australian fighter jets. You're upgrading the avionics and more fighting capabilities on 54 CF-18s. That's $3 billion without one new fighter jet. How many fighter jets could you have bought for $3 billion?
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
I'm happy to have a discussion on this with you again, Mr. Bezan. I will say to you directly, as before, that we wouldn't have had to buy used jets if those jets had been replaced a long time ago.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
No, no, let me answer your question here, okay?
There's a reason these jets are important. We could have easily started the competition and carried on with this, but we have missions to fly. As you know, we talked about the importance of sending a message to Russia. Look what's happening in Ukraine. We're back into air policing at NATO. We're doing more intercepts. Plus, our folks have to train.
So as we invest—
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
[Technical difficulty—Editor] CF-18s in combat, and they were actually fighting in Iraq and Syria.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
There's the importance of investing in the current fleet as well. If they had been replaced a long time ago, we wouldn't be in this situation.
Having said that, the competition is moving forward—
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
—and we're committed to purchasing 88 aircraft. This is a very complex process. We need to make sure it goes well so that we actually get the aircraft we need.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
Mr. Minister, you talk about 88 planes. You have this so-called capability gap—why we need 88 planes—so why are you upgrading only 54 of them? Out of our current CF-18s, you're upgrading only 54. Your numbers don't match. If we only need 54 upgraded to actually go out there and do the job, then why are you buying 88?
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
I talked to you about this before.
As we're using the aircraft, the new aircraft come online. The air force is working out the mathematics of taking delivery of the newer aircraft and transitioning out. All that is being worked on while we actually carry out those missions.
I've been seeing some of the work they've been doing, putting a lot of science behind it, and I'm very impressed with the work the air force is doing and how that transition is going to go.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
What's the survivability of our CF-18 fleet that we currently have? When did you get briefed by the RCAF that we needed to upgrade avionics? Why aren't we upgrading the jammers that are on them as well?
