National Defence Committee on March 12th, 2021

[LCdr Raymond Trotter]

From CFNIS...?

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Yes.

[LCdr Raymond Trotter]

That would have been the next morning. I got a call from CFNIS in Esquimalt. I think the time was approximately eight o'clock in the morning, at the start of business.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Whoever you spoke to who you thought was in the minister's office.... It was less than 24 hours before the CFNIS was in touch with you to try to follow up. Is that correct?

[LCdr Raymond Trotter]

That's affirmative, ma'am.

I'd have to go back to my statement earlier. The warrant officer in Ottawa told me that he was getting in contact with me because of what he received from the SMRC and not from any reporting through the minister's office.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I would also like to acknowledge what you said. We all know that this is unprecedented. The system was not set up for the chief of defence staff, if there was something against the chief himself. I completely understand that we need to make sure we have clearer systems and processes. I do want to thank you again for making the efforts that you did to try to make sure that something came of this.

Following that, it was a matter of a few weeks when the chief of defence staff, then Admiral McDonald, learned that he was under investigation, and he immediately stepped away from that position. Would you imagine it was exactly for that reason, that he couldn't be acting as the chief of defence staff if he knew he was under investigation?

Would that, then, remove that obstacle, which is the fact that there is nobody, as you mentioned, that would be higher than he is?

Do you think by having the investigation ongoing and knowing that there was very quick action—it sounds like you got three phone calls within a day of your call—that now it is possible the investigation may actually be able to proceed and find real justice for the complainant you're doing this for?

[LCdr Raymond Trotter]

Just so I can understand your question, you're asking whether the allegation against Admiral McDonald can proceed in a fair manner now that he's stepped aside as the chief of the defence staff. Is that your question?

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

It's both: the fact that there was immediate action taken, and then he stepped back and now there is an ongoing investigation. Yes, that would be my question.

[LCdr Raymond Trotter]

With respect to the timing about his stepping back as it relates to my reporting, I can't honestly answer that with any certainty. It would be, again, conjecture on my part.

With respect to the investigation into Admiral McDonald by the appropriate authorities, again, I think I would have to refer that matter to somebody who has more knowledge on the matter, and is well above my pay grade, to answer that kind of question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

I'm sorry, Madam. Your time is up.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, the floor is yours.

No, I'm sorry, it's Mr. Fortin who has the floor.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

I'm sorry, Mr. Fortin. It's your turn.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Don't be sorry. It makes me feel younger that you called me Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

LCdr Trotter, thank you for being with us today. I know, like my colleagues, that this has been a difficult time for you. I, too, can only acknowledge your courage, and I thank you for it.

LCdr Trotter, you mentioned to my colleague that you were referring to a timeline that you had prepared. Would it be possible for you to provide a copy to the committee?

[LCdr Raymond Trotter]

Sir, I'm going to have to interject because my use of French is quite old, and the interpretation service right now is simply not working for me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Please stand by.

Mr. Fortin, could you ask your question again?

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I'll repeat them, Madam Chair, of course.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Is it working?

[LCdr Raymond Trotter]

I'm only able to hear Mr. Fortin. I'm not able to hear anything in English. You have my apologies.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

We'll stop the clock here.

Go ahead, Mr. Fortin. Would you try it again?

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Yes, Madam Chair.

LCdr Trotter, thank you for being here. Like my colleagues, I recognize that this has been a trying time for you and that it takes a great deal of courage to be here this morning to talk to us about these events. I thank you for that.

A few moments ago, in response to my colleague Ms. Vandenbeld, you said that you were referring to a timeline that you had prepared.

I was wondering if it was possible for you to send us a copy.

[LCdr Raymond Trotter]

Yes, sir, I do have a copy of it here. It was essentially relayed between me and my legal counsel. May I request that I could have some conference with him on version editing and back and forth before potentially having him submit it, or I could submit it but I'd like to have that opportunity so it meets a certain standard.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Yes. I don't have a problem with you talking to your lawyer about it. It would be practical for the committee to be able to refer to this copy of your timeline. I'll wait for your response on that.

I won't repeat the questions that you've been asked previously, but I understood the process you went through as a result of the complaint you received from this victim.

I'd like to know if at any point you discussed this issue directly with Adm McDonald.

[LCdr Raymond Trotter]

No, sir, I did not.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Okay.

Did you discuss it with the victim again after the meeting where she told you about the situation? Did you see her afterwards?

[LCdr Raymond Trotter]

Sir, yes, I have been in almost constant communication with the victim because as part of my duties as a Canadian Forces officer I feel I'm obliged, as part of the chain of command, to provide all the necessary support and services and refer her to appropriate services.