National Defence Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Mr. Garrison.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I too want to start by expressing the condolences of the New Democrats to the family of Corporal James Choi, the B.C. reservist, who was lost in the tragic training accident at Wainwright.

I also want to take a moment to thank the more than 1,700 members of the Canadian Armed Forces who pitched in at the long-term care homes during the COVID crisis, something I know none of us ever expected to see happen.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today. I also want to thank you for keeping the lines of communication open during these very strange times we're in.

Given that we're going to have to vote in the House, there are some things I am not going to be able to talk about today, things like the measures to combat racism and extremism in the Canadian Armed Forces, and the measures to improve mental health services and, I guess, the general question of how we keep expecting the Canadian Forces to do more and more every year when their operations budget doesn't increase.

That said, I'm going to take my one set of questions and focus on the role of women in the Canadian military.

Mr. Minister, you probably know that last week we heard that the Canadian Forces is struggling to meet its targets for women in the Canadian military. Four years into the program when the percentage should have increased, according to your goals, from 15% to 19%, we have had an increase of less than 1% more women in the military.

To reach the goal of 25% by 2026, we would have to double our intake of women every year, and we would have to have about half of new recruits every year be women.

What special measures are being taken to increase the number of women being recruited into the Canadian military, because if we don't have some special measures, we're not going to reach those goals^

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Garrison, thank you very much for the question.

On your point about the operational budget, one thing I can assure you is that when it comes to any type of operations, they are separately funded. Any time the Canadian Armed Forces are needed, we always make sure that they have the appropriate support to be able to do their work.

When it comes recruiting women, you are absolutely right. We need to do more, and we are doing more. The baseline we set of 25% is not just a certain timeline, or where we are going to stop. We want to keep going.

We have made significant progress. We're at 16.1% women in the Canadian Armed Forces now. We have actually had increases in numbers since 2015-16, when we had about 979 to having over 1,300 in 2016-17, over 1,400 in the year afterwards, and then 1,700 more, and we're on to about 1,800 this year.

Improvement is happening. We're not happy either. We would like to have far more increases, but as you also know—you have highlighted this in the past—we also need to take a look at retention. How do we look at making those supports?

We are providing the appropriate support, but getting one aspect of that is extremely important. Operation Honour and the Path To Dignity were just one way of looking at how we can make culture change inside the Canadian Armed Forces.

Great work is happening. We're not happy with the progress, nor should we be until we actually meet the mission objective. I recently had a briefing from the army commander who was looking at a new uniform and making sure that it had a gender-based analysis plus on it, to make sure it had the appropriate fit.

Let's put it this way: We're putting the science behind the work we're doing. In terms of the recruitment, there was an IDEaS project that we funded to look at how we could analyze our data to improve the way we not only do the recruitment but also align the women to the various trades so we can focus on retention.

We're putting all the support and resources on this to make sure we improve. Yes, we're not happy with exactly where we are, but I also want to commend the tremendous efforts that have been made by the leadership in the Canadian Armed Forces.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

You know me well enough to know where I'm going next in my question, and that question is about retention. One of the things that are key to retaining women in the military is dealing with the problem of sexual harassment and sexual assault in the military.

I was a big supporter of Operation Honour, but I have to say, Mr. Minister, we have had two reports, one internal report and one by the Auditor General, and now we have another 2020 internal report that says that with regard to victims who make complaints about sexual harassment or sexual assault, the vast, overwhelming majority still feel they are dismissed or disregarded.

I want to know what special measures you are going to put in place to change this. Obviously, what we're doing here is not making the difference it has to make.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I'm going to pass it over to the vice chief after making some comments.

Some of the reports you see are actually by us internally making sure that we stay up to date on how we are progressing. Having this accurate information allows us to be able to make the appropriate adjustments, and the current path that has been launched is about our efforts on how to make cultural changes inside the Canadian Armed Forces.

A lot of great work has been done, but, as I mentioned before, we can't just make a decision and think that things are finished. We have to create an organization that evolves with current changes and make improvements, and that's exactly what we are doing, making sure that we talk to the experts like Dr. Preston, who is now independently able to provide that work for the Canadian Armed Forces.

A lot of the great work is done. I'd just like to pass off to the vice—

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Mr. Minister, time is short here, and I would just ask one specific thing. We passed Bill C-77, a major part of which would put victims' rights as a primary focus in the Canadian military justice system.

That was proclaimed in June 2019. We still don't have the regulations in place to implement victims' rights in the military justice system.

Can you tell us when those regulations will be done, and “soon” is not a good enough answer. We've been waiting a year for these regulations, so what is the holdup?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I wish these regulations could be done almost immediately, but we also committed to consulting with the victims so that the regulations are done appropriately. This is actually something we committed to and we need to make sure that we do that well.

But when it comes to Bill C-77, it's important to note that even though the law was just passed, we actually started taking those measures even before the law was passed. And now that the law has been passed, we will continue to improve upon everything we have passed so that the appropriate support and mechanisms are there even while we are looking at drafting the regulations.

We are working, I can assure you, as quickly as possible. I've spoken to the JAG many times about this, but it's probably the most critical piece to this and it has to be done.

We just can't make a regulation saying the regulations are complete. The regulations have to be written in a way that actually creates the impact, and that impact can only happen if we continually consult the victims themselves so we get this right.

When it comes to the timeline piece, I can't give you an exact answer on this, but one thing I can assure you is that we are going to get this right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Thanks very much.

Madam Gallant, for five minutes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, what types of PPE were issued to the Canadian Armed Forces personnel deployed to long-term care facilities in Ontario and Quebec?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Vice, do you want to take that?

[LGen Mike Rouleau]

I can't give you the names of the specific companies, but the PPE that was issued to people in long-term care facilities was of a medical grade, and we paid particular attention to make sure that we weren't putting any Canadian Armed Forces troops into any positions in the long-term care facilities unless they received medical protection that was to the same standard as what the medical folks were using.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Were all the Canadian Armed Forces personnel issued the same PPE?

[LGen Mike Rouleau]

I can't answer specifically if there was uniform distribution. There were a number of suppliers that were in play at the time. It was a very dynamic environment, so it is possible there were variances across the country, Madam.

We could get that back to you in writing with a little more examination.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Was the PPE used from a stockpile, or was it purchased new in 2020?

[LGen Mike Rouleau]

So—

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

We had a stockpile that we have always kept for situations like this, but during that time there were a lot of discussions on not only having to use the stockpile but also on making make sure that we ordered the appropriate PPE, so that not only could we fill it up for us, but also how we could actually distribute it.

I have certain numbers if you'd like to have some of the numbers for surgical masks, the N95s. I'm happy to provide that to you separately as well.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

That would be lovely.

When were these supplies in the stockpile purchased? What was the expiration date on the PPE?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

When it comes to this matter, this is where the surgeon general takes particular care in making sure that we have the appropriate supplies, because we're an organization that can be called upon for any type of situation. So we make sure that our supplies are ready to go.

One thing I can assure you of is that there is a certain timeline—and the vice can go into this—on how many weeks or days we need to have supplies ready by if we're ever called upon.

[LGen Mike Rouleau]

Minister, all I would add is that we pay particular attention in wave two, so that we have 30-, 60- and 90-day supplies based on the number of troops that we think we'll have to employ in different areas.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

What was the expiration date on the PPE for the people deployed in Operation Laser?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

On the expiration date, the equipment that we're going to be providing for our troops—

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

No, no. It's what was already used. I want to know what was used in Operation Laser.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

We'll have to get you—

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Was the PPE expired?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Of course not. With any equipment that we provide to our troops, we're going to be making sure that it's not only the appropriate equipment—this is something that was assured by the surgeon general—but also making sure that we assess exactly where they're going, and do they have the appropriate equipment for where they're going?

For example, somebody who's going into a long-term care facility has to have not only the appropriate equipment, but there are certain measures that need to take place, versus somebody who's going to be working outside of long-term care.