Evidence of meeting #11 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was arctic.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

James Fergusson  Professor, Centre for Defence and Security Studies, Department of Political Studies, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
Robert Huebert  Associate Professor, Department of Political Science, University of Calgary, As an Individual
Stephen Saideman  Paterson Chair in International Affairs, Norman Paterson School of International Affairs, Carleton University, As an Individual
Lieutenant-General  Retired) Walter Semianiw (As an Individual
Anessa Kimball  Associate Professor of Political Science, Director, Centre for International Security, École supérieure d’études internationales, Université Laval, As an Individual

4:50 p.m.

LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you for the invitation to address the committee.

As the last commander of Canada Command, responsible for Canada's north from a military perspective, my comments today, as I'm sure you're aware, will be focused on the threats to Canada's north and on what the Government of Canada can do to address those threats.

To provide you with some context, I had the privilege of travelling throughout the north for over two and a half years, working closely with the commander of Northern Command, my U.S. counterpart responsible for the U.S. Arctic, as well as exercising in the north with many different partners.

I'm sure the committee has already heard from other witnesses that threat can be determined by two factors, which some would say are different sides of the same coin: first, the threat; and second, the capabilities. They come together to determine the level of the threat, from low to high.

To be fair, it's difficult to find a country today that has stated an intent to challenge Canada's northern sovereignty. Could this change? Yes. Intent to cause harm can change very quickly, which is why examining those nations that have the capability to act in the north if they decide to do so could provide the committee with a clearer picture of what the future threat or threats could be to Canada's north. From the vantage point of capabilities, the answer is very clear: the Russian Federation.

If the committee has the time, it should take a close look at what the Russian Federation has accomplished across its north over the last three decades. It's not just about defence, which I heard not too long ago; it's also about being prepared for aggression.

China, on the other hand, has the capability to act across the Arctic, but it lacks the ability to sustain forces. I would disagree with what I've heard. I believe Russia has the ability to sustain military operations across the high Arctic and subarctic, given what it has built across its northern shore over the past decades. Yes, I know that goes counter to what we're seeing today in Ukraine; however, there's a strong reason to have that conclusion. This is who we should keep an eye on.

What could the Government of Canada do to be ready for future threats in Canada's north? Again, the answer is up for debate, which I'm sure you've heard, but the fact is that whatever we do will be expensive. You've heard this many times. It's usually, as a minimum, about four times more expensive to build and maintain any infrastructure in the north than it is in the south. Perhaps that's a reason to build our capabilities over the longer period on a multi-year plan or to develop and put together a strategy to protect Canada's north, something that has been lacking for many years. We need a plan to protect our north.

Next, we need to be able detect threats: air threats, maritime threats, land threats or a combination of some, or all, as you just heard, multidomain threats. In this respect, the weakness that we have remains in the area of maritime domain awareness—what is going on above and under the waters of Canada's Arctic. Yes, it has improved, thanks to technology, but more needs to be done. As well, this capability should be managed by one organization.

On the one hand, when we talk about NORAD modernization, should we also be speaking about, perhaps, its being responsible for managing maritime threats across Canada's north? There is a strong reason and a strong case to make to do that. To manage those threats, NORAD has many of the pieces and parts in place already, but clearly it needs a mandate to do that.

Finally, detecting threats on the land is difficult. We have current capabilities that we could use and build on to address that—the Canadian Rangers. I've worked with them in the north, in person, on the ground. As a reminder, for the discussion, there are five ranger groups in the Canadian Ranger program. Their role is to conduct patrols across the north, report unusual activities or sightings, and perform sovereignty or national security duties.

As such, I would submit to you that we need, first, to expand the ranger program to fully cover our north, and second, to professionalize the program. Yes, the Canadian Rangers do amazing work with what they are given, but the support they receive in terms of equipment, training and logistics needs to improve dramatically for the rangers to be prepared to detect modern land threats across Canada's north. Again, this is the most economical, quick and efficient way to establish an on-the-ground northern land surveillance system.

In addition, one could also add drones to the entire package, medium and large drones patrolling across our Arctic with the rangers and the Canadian Army. It would go very far to increasing our ability to detect land threats across approximately 2.6 million square kilometres of Canada's north. Drones of this nature have been used across Canada's north in the past, but they have yet to become part of Canada's regular inventory of its military.

Once we detect a threat, hopefully we have the capability to respond to that threat. NORAD modernization in its fullest sense, to include new combat aircraft for Canada, will meet the need to effectively respond to threats in our northern airspace. Responding to a maritime threat, as you may have just heard, can take many forms, including through air power and medium and large drones, but to be able to respond to a maritime incursion across our north with a Canadian warship is more problematic.

Why is that? You need, on the one hand, icebreaking capability [Technical difficulty—Editor] the coast [Technical difficulty—Editor] ship-borne weapon systems, which rests with the Royal Canadian Navy. Could we bring these two solitudes together—arm the Coast Guard and build an icebreaking capability for the navy? I leave this for the committee to ponder.

Last, to respond to the land threat, our military would initially have the rangers in place across Canada's north, supported by drones, but they would need to be augmented by the Canadian Army very quickly. The Canadian Army can effectively fight in the north. We've seen that. However, we would need to get military personnel on the ground in the north quickly, where needed, to contain a land threat.

The Royal Canadian Air Force has already demonstrated the ability to move military personnel into the north from the west or east of Canada.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

General Semianiw, I'm sorry, but we're going to have to leave it there—

4:55 p.m.

LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw

Okay.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

—but I'm sure you'll work the balance of your presentation into the committee.

Colleagues and witnesses, I apologize, but our technical difficulties continue, and apparently there's no way to resolve them during this meeting, so we will have to stay with it.

I'll ask Professor Kimball to move her microphone up slightly. That might help for the translators.

With that, we'll turn to our six-minute round and Mr. Doherty, Mr. Spengemann, Madame Normandin and Madam Mathyssen.

Mr. Doherty.

March 21st, 2022 / 4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Lieutenant-General, in your highly experienced opinion, should Russian aggression start to extend to NATO partners and friends of Ukraine, would Canada be able to defend itself from a volley of ICBMs? If yes, what would that process look like?

4:55 p.m.

LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw

That's a great question. The question was posed to the previous panel, and I think the answer is clear. At the end of the day, whether we would be on our own, nobody knows. That's where I take a slightly different view. I agree more with Dr. Huebert that we need to perhaps start taking a look at ourselves, at what we can do and do on our own if needed.

Granted, in North America we work together with the United States. A lot of legal authorities would be required, but at the end of the day, if you take a close look at the agreements, there's no guarantee that the United States of America would defend Canada against any aggression, be it by air, ground, land or sea.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

In your opinion, in a time of crisis, would our forward Arctic airfields and their facilities still be ready for CF-18s to engage in intercepts of Russian strategic aviation?

4:55 p.m.

LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw

Yes. It's a great question. As I said in the latter part of my presentation, that's something that needs to be looked at, because there are neither enough fighter aircraft nor enough personnel across the north or being moved into the north. Yes, you have Resolute, Yellowknife and Iqaluit, but more needs to be done to have airfields. When you take a look at the forward operating locations, yes, there are some, but you need more to be able to cover the north effectively.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

How do you view the recent fractional orbital bombardment system test by China, and is NORAD prepared to deal with such a threat?

4:55 p.m.

LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw

That's a great question. I don't have the answer to that or the expertise to answer that question, but I can tell you that I have had the privilege of actually sitting [Technical difficulty—Editor] a number of times watching missile launches out of China. At a certain point, whether or not that is a threat is determined by physics and trajectory.

I believe that in theory the United States has the ability to address those threats. In practice, I haven't seen it, and I don't know the answer.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

How would you describe the sea-based and subsurface threats to North America posed by Russia and China?

5 p.m.

LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw

I would classify them as real threats.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

How do Russia and China view Canada's Arctic and the Northwest Passage in strategic terms?

5 p.m.

LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw

If you take a look very quickly at China's Arctic policy, published in 2018, you will see that China has proclaimed itself a near-Arctic state. It's not just China. The Arctic Council comment mentioned by the earlier panel is very true. I actually attended a number of Arctic Council meetings, and the key, the intent, was to keep the military out of the Arctic Council. A lot was done to do that.

However, if you look at the composition of the Arctic Council and who is an observer, there's not just China. More and more countries are realizing the importance of the Arctic, be it the Northwest Passage or other areas, and for China and Russia, in my opinion, one clear objective is to be able to control it sometime in the future.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Is NORAD, as it is now configured, prepared to fight a modern war?

5 p.m.

LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw

Yes, it is.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Are Russian strategic aviation flights and submarine operations back up to the level they were during the Cold War in approaches to North America?

5 p.m.

LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw

Not yet, but they will be.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Do you believe that North Korea sees a difference between targeting Canada and the United States?

5 p.m.

LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw

I have no expertise on that. I don't know. I watch, as you probably do as well, only open sources. I'd have to defer to somebody else for a clearer answer to that question.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

The recent joint statement between Canada and the United States on NORAD modernization discussed a consolidation of sensors from the ocean floor to space. Can you comment on that?

5 p.m.

LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw

Yes, there's a real need for that. If I look back to 2010-11, that was a concern. We did a number of trials and tests on having sensors on the ocean floor to know who's in the north.

As I'm sure the committee is aware, there are submarines that go through our north—we would call it part of Canada's waters—on a regular basis that we are not aware of. We are informed, I think, through partnership, but we really don't know what's going on under the water in Canada's north, so I think it's a step in the right direction.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

That recent joint statement also talked about deterring and defeating new missile threats to North America. What is Canada's role in defeating these new technological threats to North American security?

5 p.m.

LGen (Ret'd) Walter Semianiw

That I don't know the answer to. You'd have to turn to somebody else for an answer to that question.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

How effective are our Victoria-class submarines in defending the Arctic? What are the limitations and what are the plans to replace them?