National Defence Committee on June 6th, 2022

[LGen Frances J. Allen]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for that question.

I believe when General Brodie was speaking to the committee previously, she outlined some of the initiatives to look at doing focused recruiting with specific groups moving forward, initiatives that really focus on appealing to the interest as well as targeting the interest via the communications mechanisms and mediums that are mostly used by the populations that we are looking for going forward, be they technical communities, be they women or be they members of minority communities from within Canada.

There are a number of focused and targeted approaches to appeal to various parts of the community as part of the recruiting session. We can provide greater detail on what those are, if that is necessary.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you for that.

I had a chance to chat a little bit about the Arctic with the minister earlier. When we talk about growing strategic competition in the Arctic, we've heard for years that we need to do more to ensure that we can protect our sovereignty in the north. With Russia's actions in Ukraine, anxiety over this issue is possibly higher than it has been for many decades, particularly amongst Canadians living in the northern Arctic regions.

What kinds of investments are being supported through these estimates that are furthering the CAF's ability to operate in the north? How will these estimates benefit northern communities?

[Bill Matthews]

Maybe I will start, Mr. Chair. The vice-chief may have things to add.

I think we've already touched on the importance of the Arctic offshore patrol ships and the voyages that they've already taken. There's more to come on that front, so presence is important.

The other one I would flag is the ongoing maintenance of the North Warning System. That work is important. We've also discussed that there are ongoing discussions about NORAD and continental defence modernizations. There's more to follow on that as well, but it's premature to say anything beyond that at this stage.

Vice-chief, did you have anything to add?

[LGen Frances J. Allen]

Yes. I would add that the exercises we do in the north, as well as the activities both within Canada—with Canadians—and with our allies in the north, are also part of demonstrating sovereignty and demonstrating our capability to exercise in the north.

Part of defence is deterrence and demonstrating that you have capabilities to operate and to respond. That is an active part of what we are doing when we engage in northern activities and northern operations.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Fisher.

Ms. Normandin, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to hear from the witnesses on the issue of drones.

We went to Lithuania, and we saw that the public was able to raise $5 million for the purchase of a Turkish Bayraktar drone. We know that this is part of the industry of the future. Quebec is also recognized as a leader in the area of drones.

I'd like you to tell us what can come from the budget in terms of drones. Is the main focus for drones on search and rescue, or are there possibilities for armed drones, for example?

[LGen Frances J. Allen]

I can start with this. I'll say that remotely piloted vehicles and drones are a part of the operational landscape that we see in military activities and operations. We have projects under way within our own portfolio that deal with that.

As it pertains to Ukraine, what we have seen is that they have expressed an interest. The donations that were made were related to the cameras associated with the drones that the Ukrainians were operating. That was provided as part of the Ukrainian donation.

If you'd like more information on the RPAS, perhaps I could pass the floor to Mr. Crosby.

[Troy Crosby]

Thank you for the question.

The remotely piloted aircraft system project competition is under way. Bids are due in mid-August. The resulting remotely piloted aircraft capability will largely be focused on providing intelligence surveillance reconnaissance. It's basically awareness in the north and off of Canada's coasts into the future.

The remotely piloted aircraft system will have a precision weapon capability, which would, of course, be subject to the usual rules of engagement that apply to any such platform, whether it is crewed or uncrewed.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Chair, I think I have 15 seconds left. I'll pass on my remaining time.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

Madam Blaney, you have two and a half minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to ask a couple of questions. The first one is if DND will be able to meet its objective of 25% of people joining being women in 2026. We know that number continues to be elusive and we haven't got there yet.

I'm wondering if there is any specific work being done in terms of research and looking at equipment. We know that's been a big issue. I've heard from veterans about that for a long time. I know it's getting better, but we know that a lot of equipment was not built for a women's body. It's changing. I'm wondering how that work is going. What are the key things that women are indicating they need to have in order to be looking at the military in a meaningful way?

The second question that I have is around systemic racism. I've heard from many veterans who went through the military and had some really astonishingly negative things happen because of the community that they came from. I'm wondering what's happening in DND right now to uncover what has happened and figure out processes that are a little more fair. We know at this point that if it's somebody you're directly reporting to, it can be very hard—just like it is for anybody who's from a minority group—to come forward and talk about the situation that's happening in a meaningful way.

I'm wondering what kind of work is being done on these two files.

[LGen Frances J. Allen]

Perhaps, if it's all right with the chair, I'll start on the first part as it pertains to women and recruitment.

The target of 25% women within the Canadian Forces, I think, is a goal that we have been striving towards, but one that I think will be challenging for us to meet by 2025. Of the intake we had in the 2020-22 years, 15.6% of the over 8,000 people who were recruited into the Canadian Armed Forces were women.

As you know, we are very much putting in place programs into which women, I would say, when they meet the qualifications to join the Canadian Armed Forces, are brought forward as candidates. Those are both in the Royal Military College and in the ranks so that we can continue to try to prioritize the placement of female applicants into the Canadian Armed Forces.

As well, during the time of COVID, we had a little bit of a pause from trying to focus on listening to women's voices with respect to what they need within the Canadian Armed Forces. We have in place a women in force program that is really about trying to give women voices to bring forward the issues they see as barriers to their service moving forward.

We also do not wish the onus to be on—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Unfortunately, we're going to have to leave it there. I apologize.

Ms. Gallant, you have five minutes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

When it comes to homing in on cases of sexual misconduct, there seems to be a focus on officers graduating from the military colleges. Do you have an understanding of why that would be? Why would they home in on people from RMC with respect to allegations?

[LGen Frances J. Allen]

Mr. Chair, I'm not sure who the honourable member is referring to as “they” in the circumstances.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

I mean Madam Arbour, in her report.

[LGen Frances J. Allen]

Thank you.

I believe it was an observation Madam Arbour made simply through her examination of different communities within the Canadian Armed Forces. This was as it pertained to her examination of the military colleges, but she also obviously engaged with people of all ranks across the Canadian Forces.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Okay. You're totally off base.

The military police has, as its head, the provost marshal. Is that right?

[LGen Frances J. Allen]

That is correct.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Who does the provost marshal report to?

[LGen Frances J. Allen]

Under the National Defence Act, the provost marshal is administratively responsible to me, the vice-chief of the defence staff.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Okay, so if there were an accusation, an allegation, a grievance against the vice-chief of the defence staff, what would be the recourse for the individual who's making the charge?

[LGen Frances J. Allen]

Grievances aren't dealt with by the provost marshal, so it would be dealt with through different administrative processes, through the chain of command of the individual member.

If it pertained to an allegation of a violation of the code of service discipline, the provost marshal would indeed look into that issue.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Okay.

I hope that the provost marshal does indeed look into grievance number 004096, but more to the point, let's get back to RMC.

What is playing out in the accounts that we are reading? There's a sort of protectorate from one generation of RMC graduates to the next. In one instance, people—our kids, recruits, cadets—are told to report any misconduct or harassment, and they do. Then they're assigned an assisting officer. Then the months go by and the cadet is told to withdraw the complaint or else. Doing so would be best for their future career. When the cadet decides to take it to the top and follow through to make sure justice is done, it turns out that the judge is the assisting officer who was supposed to be giving help to that cadet.

Now we find that we have people who have grievances, and the whole military's getting involved by attacking, for example, their LinkedIn page. It's a kind of asymmetric warfare against anyone who makes an allegation of sexual misconduct or harassment.

Has there been any plan or any discussion on how we can stop that cycle of harassing the individual who puts forward the complaint, especially ultimately when it comes to a legal matter, a charge, falling into your lap?

[LGen Frances J. Allen]

I am not at all familiar with the circumstances that.... It sounds like it's a specific set of circumstances that the member is speaking about.

We certainly do take concerns and complaints very seriously within the Canadian Forces. There are a number of different avenues through which those concerns can be brought forward, be they violations of the code of service discipline or whether it is a complaint about a behaviour. There are different mechanisms for taking those forward, and we take that quite seriously.