National Defence Committee on Nov. 1st, 2022

[MGen Iain Huddleston]

I can attempt to follow up on what General Pelletier was saying. We are challenged in our ability to detect and track the most modern missile systems or weapon systems that both the Russians and the Chinese possess, but part of NORAD modernization is to get after some of that problem in both the detect and the defeat areas of our business.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

With that, you have one minute, Madame Normandin.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

I'd like to follow up on Mrs. Kramp‑Neuman's line of questioning.

Which sectors of NORAD are the hardest hit by the personnel shortage? Is it infrastructure maintenance, surveillance or aerospace capacity? Which sectors are the most vulnerable?

[MGen Iain Huddleston]

Thank you for your question.

I would say we don't have enough personnel to perform infrastructure maintenance, but we also need personnel to maintain our aerospace capacity. Aviation technicians, in particular, come to mind.

Our surveillance teams are also affected, but as I said, we are working on reinforcing them through technology and training enhancements.

It's primarily in those two areas where we are focused in order to support NORAD modernization moving forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

Ms. Mathyssen, you have one minute.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

I think in our first meeting on this study, we heard from Admiral Topshee about the dangers, of course, of climate change, and how that's changing how our armed forces up in the north, up in the Arctic, deal with that.

Could you quickly expand on that for us today?

[MGen Iain Huddleston]

Mr. Chair, I believe that question is for the military side of the house.

We are very focused on the government's commitment to net zero, and we're doing our best to ensure that our aircraft are moving forward in that direction. Primarily, our efforts that are going to be successful in the near term involve improvements to infrastructure, reductions in the use of flying hours through simulation, and certainly consultation with indigenous and northern communities in order to ensure that our impacts are minimized when our forces are deployed to the north.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Mathyssen.

Mr. Bezan, you have four minutes.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be quick.

I want to thank our witnesses.

We were looking at the U.S. ballistic missile defence program. Could General Pelletier explain the mechanisms of how the hand-off happens between NORAD and the American BMD program if they were going to intercept a warhead coming towards North America and how that hand-off comes back again, just so people understand the efficacy of the program and the overall involvement that Canada has directly and indirectly in the decision-making process?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I know you directed that question to General Pelletier. Unfortunately, his communication is not working.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I'll put it to Major-General Huddleston as commander of the Canadian NORAD region.

[MGen Iain Huddleston]

I don't, unfortunately, have knowledge of the Canadian involvement in the missile defence aspect of NORAD headquarters. That would have to be a question that we would take on notice to be answered more fulsomely at a later time.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

We'd appreciate that. You can get back to us on that.

When we are looking at upgrading our current NORAD North Warning System, when we start talking about over-the-horizon radar systems as well as low-earth orbit satellites, would that give us complete coverage of our Arctic archipelagos versus where we're at today, which is strictly on the continent?

[Jonathan Quinn]

I will start, and General Huddleston might have more to add.

Yes. The idea is that the Canadian contribution to the new layered surveillance system would be an Arctic over-the-horizon radar site near the Canada-U.S. border that would look to the outer reaches of Canadian territory. A second site would be in the High Arctic in Canada that would see up and over the pole. A little bit of residual research and development are required for that High Arctic system, but the plan would be for that to be fielded approximately two years after the lower-latitude system.

Thank you.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

When were you looking at a timeline, then? You're saying two years after the fact. Is a Canadian industry involved as the developer, or is it American? What is the timeline here to get this whole system up and running?

[Jonathan Quinn]

We are in the early stages of implementation at this point, but, as I think General Pelletier said in an earlier answer, for that initial Arctic over-the-horizon radar system, we're looking to have that up and running towards the end of the 2020s.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Is NORAD also looking more into the space domain of making use of satellites and expanding their RADARSAT constellation in particular?

[Jonathan Quinn]

From a Canadian perspective, part of the package that was announced in June for NORAD modernization included additional investment in both earth observation satellite—that was the follow-on to the RADARSAT constellation mission I mentioned previously—and additional funding to get the secure satellite communications above 65° north up and running.

Both of those will be important Canadian contributions, not specifically to NORAD space capabilities, but they will certainly be used, and NORAD will benefit from those investments.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Bezan.

Mr. Fisher, you have the final four minutes.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, gentlemen, for being here.

I'm going to direct my question to Mr. Quinn. I'm looking for some more discussion in layman's terms.

We talked about the future fighter capability project. With other questioners, most notably Mr. Robillard, we talked about NORAD modernization. I'm interested in how the two, NORAD modernization and the future fighter capability project, will work together to improve our ability to patrol Canada's aerospace.

Mr. Quinn, I thought you said some things about this before that seemed at a level I could easily understand, and I would appreciate that.

[Jonathan Quinn]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

I'll start, and I'll invite General Huddleston to chip in as well.

In terms of the interaction between the future fighter and some of the investments as part of the NORAD modernization package, I mentioned new investments in infrastructure. That will make sure that both in southern Canada but also in the NORAD forward operating locations the infrastructure is appropriate and well set up for those really advanced capabilities of the future fighter aircraft.

As well, a big part of the NORAD modernization effort is to enhance command and control systems. We have a huge amount of data already coming in from various sensors. As we modernize those surveillance systems, there will be even more data. We will use new technology, like artificial intelligence, secure cloud computing and machine learning, to ingest all of that information coming from those sensors, analyze it and spit it out in easily understandable, decision-quality information for operators. We'll have the ability to communicate that not only to operators in headquarters, but also pilots who are flying the future fighter, to make sure that they have that decision-quality information at the ready.

As well—and this is the last thing I'll mention—one of the other initiatives of the NORAD modernization effort is to procure new air-to-air missiles, both short- and long-range, essentially acquiring more of those so we have sufficient stocks, but also a new, longer-range variant of air-to-air missiles that will be used in the future fighter aircraft. This will help account for the fact that our adversaries can launch missiles that can threaten Canada from further away.

Between that enhanced northern infrastructure, so that you can pre-position fighters further to the Canadian outer reaches, and those longer-range missiles, the package will make us much more capable.

General Huddleston, I'm not sure whether there's time to add anything else to that.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have about a minute.

[MGen Iain Huddleston]

Thank you, Mr. Quinn. You've covered it all very well.

The fighters and the supporting structure for the fighters are our defeat mechanism. They're meant to engage the threats that we see, but they will also contribute significantly to domain awareness, the surveillance of the space when they're airborne.

NORAD defence, defence of this continent, is very much a layered effort. We've talked about satellites, about communication and surveillance, about radars, and now we're talking about the fighters. The way they mesh together is important, in order to bring all of those capabilities together to achieve the priorities of General VanHerck and to give us the detect and defeat capabilities, particularly, that we're short on currently.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Fisher.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

That was really helpful. Thank you, gentlemen.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.