National Defence Committee on Nov. 24th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have 30 seconds. Now you have 25.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I'm going to ask a short snapper.

We talked about the Coast Guard being a non-military outfit, a civilian outfit. Do you think they need to have some constabulary background?

[VAdm J.R. Auchterlonie]

It's probably not my answer to that question, but what I did say is that it's not one department that enforces Canadian sovereignty in the north; it's all of us working together. Whether it's on a Coast Guard ship that has RCMP on board or CBSA or Fisheries, we can all enforce Canadian law together. That's a good thing in the north. That partnership works very well.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Fisher.

Ms. Normandin, you have two and a half minutes.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am now going to address my questions to everyone responsible for joint operations.

I would like you to talk some more about the joint operations carried out with the United States or with other members of NORAD, such as Operation Noble Defender and Exercise Arctic Edge. In Exercise Cold Response, we saw that shortly before the war broke out, there was virtually no plan for sending Canadian troops.

In the present circumstances, with Russia's aggression against Ukraine, I would like you to tell us why it is important to increase the number of exercises and Canada's participation in them.

[VAdm J.R. Auchterlonie]

General Godbout will be able to tell you more specifically about the exercises in the north, but you may rest assured that we often work with our allies. We participate in exercises with the Americans and with our NATO allies throughout the year.

I will let Mr. Godbout tell you about the situation in the north, more specifically.

[BGen Pascal Godbout]

Thank you.

Regarding activities in the north, what is important is synchronizing activities and messages. In the case of NATO exercises, while those activities were going on, a number of operations and exercises took place at the same time. One example was Operation Nanook-Nunalivut, which took place in the Canadian north. That year, we were located in Inuvik and Tuktoyaktuk. There were also Arctic Edge and ICEX, which took place in Alaska. That illustrates the very close cooperation between our allies and ourselves. It also demonstrates our presence in all regions of the Arctic, be it in Alaska, Canada or Europe.

With respect to operations within Canada in the Arctic, we invite our allies to participate in them, including the Americans, the Danish, the British and the French. I am forgetting some, but other Nordic countries have taken part. Observers have also come. That enables us to test our interoperability and new capacities for operating in the north, and to share practices and lessons learned in order to operate more effectively.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Normandin.

Ms. Mathyssen, you have two and half minutes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

We've often talked in this committee about the key relationship: working with indigenous communities in the north and that role of consultation with them as we're working on their land. How are the Canadian military and the Canadian government ensuring that it's not only about consultation but that we're working in free, prior, and informed consent as determined by the United Nations declaration?

[VAdm J.R. Auchterlonie]

It's obviously critical to Canada to advance reconciliation with our indigenous peoples. Those partnerships with indigenous communities are critical to conducting operations, enhancing security, and improving our infrastructure capabilities and awareness in the north. That's why we're engaging with indigenous leadership to strengthen this continental defence.

I'm going to turn it to Pascal, who worked in the north as my commander on a daily basis throughout. He can expand.

[BGen Pascal Godbout]

Thank you, sir.

We believe that consultation is vital for the success of our operations in the north. We do this in multiple ways. First, each year we send an annual letter of notification to all indigenous governments in the north to advise them of our planed activities across the three territories. This provides an opportunity for the indigenous governments to advise us if there are any concerns with the nature of the activities or the time we're scheduling those activities.

Closer to the specific activities, we'll send additional details. We will send a reconnaissance team that meets with the communities and the local governments to discuss our plans.

We have adjusted our activities in the past, either in the time or the specific location, to ensure that we did not disrupt traditional activities, such as harvesting, hunting, fishing, or other significant economic activity in the region so that we could work in tandem to ensure the safety of all people involved and the effectiveness of our operations.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

A previous questioner was asking about that infrastructure need and the necessities. Have you seen the Canadian Rangers potentially not being able to participate due to some of those infrastructural deficiencies?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Can we answer that question in 15 seconds?

[BGen Pascal Godbout]

I'll be quick, Mr. Chair.

No, infrastructure has not been the issue. The main issue has been that our Rangers very often have multiple roles. When they cannot participate, it's usually because they are committed to another critical activity, either their own activities or the well-being of the community.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

Ms. Kramp-Neuman, you have five minutes, please.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you.

First I'd like to follow up with the admiral with regard to a question that Ms. Gallant asked.

We understand that the original plan when developing the Nanisivik naval base was to have storage tanks heated. More specifically, do we know why they are not heated?

[VAdm J.R. Auchterlonie]

This is not to evade the question, but the fact is that this is not in my lane. I'm the operational commander of the Canadian Armed Forces. This question would likely be better placed to the assistant deputy minister of infrastructure and environment.

Again, I think that would probably be the best place for that, Mr. Chair. My apologies.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Okay. Perfect. If you could perhaps pose the question to him to get that to us in writing, that would be appreciated.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I'm not sure you can ask a witness to ask somebody else a question to get a response. I think—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Hang on.

I think the better way to do it is for the committee to direct the question to the person Admiral Auchterlonie is suggesting. Do it directly and not indirectly through the admiral.

Do you still have a point of order?

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I just wanted to get the response on—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Yes. Okay.

Thank you.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you.

Moving on, protecting the high north is absolutely essential, in my opinion. Much of our testimony over defence in the north has focused on the issue of today, not necessarily speaking to the unexpected changes in our society in technology or politics.

I have two questions. First, does our military have the resources needed for Joint Task Force North to match the intensified pace of change in current or future needs? Second, we quickly realized that we have inadequate resources and need to create strategies, but what do strategies mean if we don't have people?

[VAdm J.R. Auchterlonie]

That first one is hard to answer. When I talk about the future, we don't have a crystal ball here. The fact is that with Joint Task Force North, as General Godbout has noted, we have a significant percentage of folks in the north, actually members of the Canadian Armed Forces, supporting our sovereignty in the north.

It's a tough question to see where we're going. I think you've seen that our adversaries are now operating outside our national norms. You've seen Russia and their blatant disregard for national norms in Ukraine. You've seen China become more aggressive in its pursuit of its national goals. I think that's going to translate into the Arctic as they pursue their aspirations in the north, looking for that northern sea route to get their goods to Europe. You're going to see two adversaries, potentially, that are now looking to exert influence in the north.

I don't want to repeat, but I think this is across government. As I said, the military is but one solution. That military domain is but one. There are the elements of national power, as we've talked about, ensuring economic interests in the north are clarified, but the fact is that it is equally important that we have domain awareness and it's equally important that we know who owns the infrastructure and know who has the rights for resource extraction in the north. At the same time, information and diplomacy are also critical.