Natural Resources Committee on Nov. 28th, 2011

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

In actual fact, no one is now working any longer. Are the—

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Monsieur Lapointe, give the minister a chance to answer the question. You only have about five seconds left, but I'd like the minister to complete his answer.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

My question wasn't about the Chrysotile Institute.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Go ahead, Minister.

[Joe Oliver, Conservative, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I simply want to add that the institute uses these funds to provide information on how to manage the risks associated with the production and handling of chrysotile fibres. This information includes technical regulations, control measures, standards and best practices.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

My question was about the creation of jobs in the region.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

No, Mr. Lapointe, your time is more than up.

We go now to the government side to Mr. Calkins, for up to five minutes, please. Go ahead.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today. I appreciate your appearing before the committee and giving us a briefing on the excellent work the government is doing on the natural resources file.

My questions to you are in the context my being an Albertan. As an Alberta MP, of course I'm very concerned with some of the developments that have happened lately when it comes to the export of energy from Alberta, particularly the decisions made with the Keystone pipeline.

In your opening comments, you touched on the need to diversify Canada's energy export marketplace. What comes to mind immediately is the Northern Gateway pipeline to take product from Alberta and western Canada—from any point in Canada for that matter—to the west coast.

Could you provide this committee with any updates on any of the work that's being done, or any of the needs your department has insofar as these important strategic economic initiatives are concerned going forward?

[Joe Oliver, Conservative, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Thank you.

Diversifying our markets is a key strategic objective of this government. Currently, 97% of our energy exports go to the United States, and while the U.S. has been a strong customer, its energy growth is stagnant. It is absolutely essential, a key strategic objective of this government, that we diversify our customer base.

Emerging economies such as China have a very fast growing appetite for our energy exports. China is now the largest consumer of energy in the world. We have the third largest oil reserves in the world, which need to go to market. There is a tremendous complementarity. We want to diversify our customer base and it wants to diversify its sources of energy.

To get it to market, infrastructure will need to be built. And for all proposed pipelines, this will of course go through the regulatory process to ensure the pipelines are environmentally sustainable and safe.

It's important to note that pipelines remain the safest form of transportation of our energy products. In fact, if I may just add an aside, the final Keystone XL environmental impact statement from the U.S. State Department said that Keystone would be safer than any of the domestic pipelines already built in the United States, because of some 57 conditions imposed on TransCanada Pipelines and because of technological improvement in the pipeline.

So we need to move quickly; we can't afford to move slowly. The expansion of our energy sector means hundreds of thousands of jobs for Canadians, billions of dollars for our government, and trillions of dollars for the economy, and we're committed to moving forward in a socially and environmentally responsible way.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Thank you, Minister.

Do you have any numbers for this committee, when it comes to jobs created by these pipelines? It's been suggested by others that the jobs wouldn't be that significant in the North American marketplace. As an Albertan, I spend a lot of time driving around. Every time I see a pipeline going in, I see people out there working. These are good, high-paying jobs. These are technically sound jobs.

The pipelines put in years and years ago were sealed pipelines. Now we have all kinds of different materials used for pipelines—including fibreglass—and we have all kinds of developments in pipeline technology.

Does your department know if these jobs are strictly in the installation of the pipeline or in the engineering of the pipeline? Or is there manufacturing going on in Canada and in the United States, for that matter, when it comes to making the pipeline?

[Joe Oliver, Conservative, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

The jobs are of high quality. The construction relates to the pipeline and to the development of the resource in the oil sands. With Keystone, we're talking here of some 160,000 jobs for the oil sands overall, and with the pipeline over 600,000 jobs—trillions of dollars in economic activity.

What people should understand is that the oil sands, at the end of the day, are a technology project, and the technology is improving. Greenhouse gas emissions have been reduced by some 30% over the last 15 years. Extraction methods are improving in terms of their efficiency. Several decades ago, it was just sitting there and had no particular economic relevance. Now, it's the third-largest reserve in the world. With technological improvement, that 170 billion barrels of proven reserves, can go up to well over 300 billion barrels, making it the largest reserve in the entire world. This is of immense benefit to Canada; we're extremely fortunate. We've got to go about it in an intelligent and responsible way.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

The last question I have—

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Calkins, unfortunately, your time is up.

Our time with the minister is up.

We will, first of all, thank the minister very much for being here today in his first appearance before the committee. We look forward, as I said before, to other appearances in the future.

The officials will remain, but will suspend the committee for a couple of minutes as we include the other departmental officials.

The meeting is suspended.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

We are resuming the meeting with officials from the Department of Natural Resources.

We have with us today, Bill Merklinger, assistant deputy minister and chief financial officer, corporate management and services sector; Cécile Cléroux, assistant deputy minister, AECL restructuring; Mark Corey, assistant deputy minister, energy sector; and Tom Rosser, assistant deputy minister, Canadian Forest Service.

Welcome. Thank you all for being here today.

We'll continue the questioning, unless you have opening statements. My understanding is that you don't.

We'll go directly to questioning. We'll start with Monsieur Lapointe, and Madam Day, if there's time.

Monsieur Lapointe.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Good afternoon to you all. Thank you for being with us today.

The committee has met a large number of people linked to the mining industry from across the spectrum: as many social activists and representatives of aboriginal peoples as representatives of the mining industry. They have all systematically talked about a problem which differs, in my opinion, from what the minister has presented to this meeting.

The representatives of the various organizations have talked about an administration problem rather than duplication. The minister, however, talked to us about duplication. The representatives talked to us about the excessive time taken up by administrative management at every step of the way. The mining people didn't talk to us about lowering environmental standards; they talked to us systematically about that.

What is your point of view on this subject? If all those people are right, what is the plan in the short term for resolving this situation?

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Corey, go ahead.

[Mark Corey, Assistant Deputy Minister, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to add something to what our minister said.

First, as the minister mentioned, at the annual Canada’s Annual Energy and Mines Ministers’ Conference held in Kananaskis in July, the ministers agreed on a Canada-wide approach for promoting the interests of the energy and mining sectors.

One of the ministers' priorities was to make the environmental assessments of projects more efficient.

Let me just expand briefly on that.

What the minister said was that they do not want to reduce the environmental standards. They do not want, in any way, to reduce the outcome. What they're looking for is to make sure that it's efficient. In some cases, they were talking about where we have duplicative processes.

So that's really what it's about: it's about making the process more efficient, not less effective.

The second—

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Forgive me, Mr. Corey.

Many witnesses have spoken to us about the lack of resources that would ensure that administrative management took place properly and quickly.

Do you think you'll resolve this particular problem in the short term?

[Mark Corey]

Mr. Chair, as I mentioned, the ministers expressed their clear intention to accelerate the processes and make them more efficient.

The second thing I'd mention is that we have a thing called the Major Projects Management Office. This is a major initiative of the Government of Canada for some of the bigger projects to start to manage them overall. It's to ensure, as was pointed out, that they do in fact have reasonable timelines that are respected, that people in fact do deliver the parts of the project when they're supposed to be doing an analysis. So there's an overview involved. There's in fact a committee of deputy ministers, for example.

This committee of deputy ministers meets pretty regularly in order to manage the process. As the minister mentioned, improving the process in the future is one of the government's big priorities at present.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Is your department in favour of maintaining the Aboriginal Skills and Employment Partnership Program, which could be eliminated on March 31?

All the witnesses tell us that this program should not be abolished, but rather maintained and improved.

Are you for or against keeping the program?

[Mark Corey]

Mr. Chair, right now I can't say. We might be able to come back with an answer, if it's possible.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Okay, if you could get an answer for the committee.... Thank you.

Madame Day, you have about a minute.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

So I'll ask my first question quickly.

The ecoENERGY program is very popular with families and small businesses. Will it be renewed?

[Mark Corey]

Mr. Chair, the answer is yes.

The previous budget provided for a program that will be an extension of the program from past years. That means that we now have a five-year program. We saw to the renewal of the program.

Most of these programs are now included in the supplementary estimates (B) 2011-2012. The total for all these programs is $469 million. Most of this amount is intended for the ecoENERGY Retrofit—Homes program, which is designed to defray the costs of improving houses.

In short, the answer is yes. It's already done.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

This program was renewed for one year last year, that is, for up to March 31 of this fiscal year, and it will be renewed. In view of that, can you tell me whether there's a chance of making it permanent?