Natural Resources Committee on Nov. 28th, 2011

[Tom Rosser]

In a forest-sector context, there are really two facets to genomics research. One is with respect to forest pests, finding better ways to detect and control forest pests. There are also genomics applications in terms of tree growth, forest management, etc.

My recollection is that funding extends over five years at $1.8 million a year to support genomics-related research in a forest-sector context.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Allen. Your time is up.

We go now to M. Gravelle for up to five minutes.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

Recently a member of my riding came into my office. He's a lumber mill operator. Most of his business used to be in Quebec—probably 90% of his business was in Quebec. Because of the black liquor subsidy, he has now lost most of his business to Maine. Can you tell me what help there is for these forestry companies in department spending?

[Tom Rosser]

There were really two facets to our assistance for the forest sector. The minister touched on these. We've talked quite a bit about our efforts to diversify markets to make the Canadian industry, particularly the wood products sector, less reliant on the U.S. market. We feel we have made considerable progress in opening up markets, particularly in Asia, in that regard.

The other big thrust of activity within our department's suite of programs is with respect to innovation. We provide significant funding, again in partnership with provinces and industry, for transformative technologies, finding new products and new markets that can be serviced by the forest products industry. We feel we have made significant progress in placing Canada in a position of global leadership in the development and commercialization of some technologies that are potentially game changing for the forest industry. We see that as another means of creating new opportunities for firms and forest communities that have seen reductions in demand and jobs as a result of a changing global marketplace.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

I'm going to read a few things here, and I'd like you to get back to the committee on them, because these are big numbers, which I'm sure you don't have the answers about off the top of your head.

If you could get back to the committee on these, would that be appropriate?

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Go ahead.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Can you tell us the total dollars for renewable energy versus tax breaks for oil and gas?

Can you tell us about the study of carbon reduction per dollar spent on various programs, including home retrofits, renewable power, carbon capture, and storage of biofuels? Can you also tell us the amount of funding for carbon capture and storage to date by project, indicating the federal, provincial, and private contributions and the amount of carbon sequestered so far?

Finally, given this government's failure to renew the ecoENERGY for renewable power program, while other countries continue to invest in renewable energy, how will Canada maintain its competitive position in attracting private investment in green power? How does the department plan to prevent investments and jobs from flowing across the border?

If you can get back to the committee on those, I would appreciate it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

I think Mr. Corey is prepared to answer at least answer some of those questions.

Go ahead, Mr. Corey.

[Mark Corey]

Mr. Chair, of course we only have 25 minutes left—

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

That's why I would like you to get back to the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

You only have two minutes to answer these questions.

[Mark Corey]

I can actually provide answers to some of those questions, but I believe we should take notice and get back to you with more details. I think that's fair.

As for the new funding that's in supplementary estimates (B), it's $469 million. I think I went through a lot of the various parts of that.

One of the things that is actually available on the Internet was this. We went through and did an evaluation of the energy efficiency programs that ran for the last five years. For example, just on some of the reductions we got coming out of that, we anticipate that the total anticipated reductions to date are about 30 megatonnes annually by 2020. For instance, for energy efficiency initiatives, we're calculating that there will be about 20 megatonnes. For renewable energy and clean electricity programs, we're estimating about 6 megatonnes. For clean fossil fuels and alternative funding, we're estimating about 4 megatonnes. In Tom's area, in pulp and paper transformation, we're estimating 1.4 megatonnes.

Again, we do that calculation. It's one of the measures we use to see if these programs are targeted. We looked at how much it cost for the programs, per megatonne, to determine whether they were effective or not effective. That was one of the factors that drove the whole new generation of programs we're funding through supplementary estimates (B).

In terms of carbon capture and storage, we are committed to a number of major projects. We can get you the specifics on those. It's about $1 billion, federally. On some of the numbers—and here again, I am going by memory—when you look at federal, provincial and private sector funding, I think the total spending on carbon capture and storage is about $7 billion. There is a significant investment.

In my three minutes, that's an overview of what we're spending.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Can you get back to us on the rest?

[Mark Corey]

We can.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Your time is up, Mr. Gravelle.

We go now to Mr. Trudeau for up to five minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

This is going to be on a different tack. I rarely have a chance to question representatives of the Ministry of Natural Resources.

Who's in charge of maps in this country?

[Mark Corey]

That would actually be our department. It's the mapping services branch of the earth sciences sector. They are responsible for Canada's topographic maps. That's at the 1:50,000 scale and 1:250,000 scale. We're pleased to say that we finished the 1:250,000 scale in 1967, and I think we're within a year or so of completing the mapping of Canada at the 1:50,000 scale. We also have the Atlas of Canada, so you're in the right department, absolutely.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Thank you.

I'm asking not just because I've loved maps all my life, but also because as a country we rely so much on our natural resources for our economy. We have to be very much aware of where the resources are—where the oil is, where the minerals are, how the forests are doing, and how the water in the aquifers is doing. Water is going to be a big issue as well.

Even though Natural Resources Canada has an extraordinary overview role for mapping, various departments, from Environment Canada to Fisheries and Oceans, as well as private industry, also have geomatics and mapping technologies and data collection. Obviously, the various oil and gas companies have extensive mapping technology.

My question is, who collates all that? Is it done? Is there coordination between the different departments and areas?

[Mark Corey]

Mr. Chair, this is actually a question that's near and dear to my heart. As the former ADM of the earth sciences sector, I can tell you a little about that.

The Inter-Agency Committee on Geomatics is the group that coordinates that for the federal government. So you're right that Natural Resources Canada will provide a lot of the base mapping for the country, but then there are a number of major user departments, including Fisheries and Oceans Canada, Environment Canada, and National Defence. For example, when we had the ice storm back in the 1990s, National Defence Canada mobilized and basically ran the whole operation on our topographic maps. Back in those days we were still printing paper maps, so we had our printing presses working 24 hours a day, seven days a week to provide National Defence Canada with those topographic maps.

Geomatics is the emerging area that combines maps on computers, remote sensing information, and the ability to analyze it; and that's increasingly what the federal government does in bringing its information together.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

I had experience of this when I was working in the avalanche safety industry out west, where different ski resorts and guide operations would collate all their data in a central area so that we'd have a specific.... I know the challenges in making sure that the data are always collected with similar resolutions and details.

Who chairs this Inter-Agency Committee on Geomatics? How often does it meet, and when was the last time it met?

[Mark Corey]

I have to defer to my colleague, who's the current ADM. I know that when I was the ADM there, it met a couple of times a year. It was a group that was at the assistant deputy minister level.

I know some years ago we put together a major program that looked at bringing the mapping of the Government of Canada together. I think that program was so successful in the first five years that it was renewed for another five years. Departments have done a lot of work together to ensure that their mapping information works together. It works fairly well together right now. They say that standards never happen by accident, and it's been a lot of work, but I think we've done a pretty good job of it.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

I have one short follow-up comment. I was meeting with fellows from the Geomatics Industry Association of Canada, and they expressed concern that the Inter-Agency Committee on Geomatics hadn't been meeting as regularly or working as effectively as possible. So, on behalf of the committee, I would be interested in finding out if indeed it has slowed down, or if there's just been a realignment. I'd very much like to encourage it to continue, because it is extremely important, not just as a knowledge base but also as an economic base for our country.

[Mark Corey]

Mr. Chair, I think we would take that on notice and we would get back to you with fuller information.

I would mention, as well, that there's a federal-provincial-territorial group that also coordinates mapping among the federal government, provinces, and territories, as they also have significant map information as well.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Thank you.