Evidence of meeting #27 for Natural Resources in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was going.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Wes Hanson  President and Chief Executive Officer, Noront Resources Ltd.
Kirk McKinnon  President and Chief Executive Officer, MacDonald Mines Exploration Ltd.
Ian Brodie-Brown  President and Chief Executive Officer, AurCrest Gold Inc.
Elijah Moonias  Marten Falls First Nation
David Kilgour  Councillor, City of Greater Sudbury

10:20 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Noront Resources Ltd.

Wes Hanson

Sure. It has to involve the first nations. You have to get the traditional knowledge of the first nations communities on whose land you're going to work, but that being said, that process has to be driven by experts, such as environmental experts. I understand Chief Moonias' point about the Athabasca River. I mean, we've seen it with the nuclear reactor in Japan: accidents do happen. Despite whatever level of engineering you take, there's always a possibility that something can go wrong, something unforeseen, something unexpected. What we try to do as engineers and professionals is engineer things to the best means possible based on our best knowledge at the time.

In the mining industry, perhaps more so than in any other industry I've ever seen, we carry the sins of our fathers quite heavily because of mistakes in the past and because of what happened in Sudbury. Everybody talks about Sudbury, not for the wealth it generated for Canada but because it was the place where the U.S. astronauts went to train to go to the moon. That's just wrong. That's a sideline. The real truth about Sudbury is that it developed Canada, and the Ring of Fire offers the same opportunity for the next century.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you, Mr. Hyer. I'm sorry, but you are out of time.

Go ahead, Mr. Calkins, for up to five minutes.

February 16th, 2012 / 10:25 a.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB

Thank you, Chair.

It's been quite a while since we've heard from the departmental officials who came to talk to us, whether from NRCan or the major projects management office and so on, so I'm going to ask this of the mining company representatives here: have you dealt with the major projects management office in any way, shape, or form to help you advance your goals and objectives?

If so, can you describe what those negotiations and discussions were, or what kinds of help the major projects management office has provided and how useful that help has been?

10:25 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Noront Resources Ltd.

Wes Hanson

We have not. Noront has not as yet. We're starting to make those inroads again. You have to remember that this is an early stage in the development. I would think that the major projects group would be the group that would get involved once we have completed our feasibility study and have started to go out and arrange financing.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB

So this is a bit premature.

10:25 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Noront Resources Ltd.

Wes Hanson

It's a timing issue for us.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB

Okay.

Mr. McKinnon, have you something to offer there?

10:25 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, MacDonald Mines Exploration Ltd.

Kirk McKinnon

We're certainly not there yet.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB

Okay, fair enough.

We've also heard from NRCan with regard to geomapping and the geomapping project they've used. Have any of you used any data at all from the geomapping? Can you comment on any usefulness it has and on where it can be improved?

10:25 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, MacDonald Mines Exploration Ltd.

Kirk McKinnon

I'd like to speak to that. The GIS just did an absolutely terrific survey in conjunction with the Ontario government—a gravity survey—and for us it has been a catalyst in our exploration efforts, so kudos to both the federal and the provincial governments for that.

The upsetting part of it is that it was without consultation with the mining companies. Part of the area that was proposed to be flown over happened to be on our property and on Ian's property. They went to the community of Webequie, and Webequie said, “Don't fly over it”. Now, we get along very well with Webequie, but we didn't have an opportunity for any interaction.

I'm absolutely thrilled by the results we got, because it went over enough of our land to become a catalyst for something else, but that survey could have been even broader had there been some discussion with the mining community. Not to take away from the first nations, the first nations can get all kinds of time with the Premier and ministers on an ongoing basis, while the next time I get invited down to talk to a minister will be the first time.

There are two sides to this equation. We're looking to develop and we're looking to partner, but we need some help, and that was great help that the government gave. Both the provincial and the federal governments should take some kudos for that. It will help discovery in the Ring of Fire for sure.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB

Mr. Brodie-Brown, did you want to comment on that at all?

10:25 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, AurCrest Gold Inc.

Ian Brodie-Brown

I would just add to what Kirk said about consultation, because as partners of ours in the drilling, the first nations would want to talk to us about that side of it. That's business development for them, and it's not necessarily something they're familiar with. The majority of highly paid individuals in this business are obviously ethnically non-native, from Canada or from anywhere else, but first nations don't have that expertise, so a chance to have talked to us about how important it would be to them to allow it in their area would have been useful, that's all.

However, I second Kirk: it was a great project, and more should be done. They should fly the entire region.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB

Understood.

I want to go back to a comment I believe you made, Mr. Hanson, in your testimony or in a line of questioning. I think it was Mr. Allen who asked you. You said that you're currently slated to go to about 2016 before the real action starts and you're going to get to about the third quarter of 2013 before some of the regulatory stuff you're dealing with now gets the approvals you need.

What's going to happen between the third quarter of 2013 and 2016? What happens in that timeframe?

10:25 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Noront Resources Ltd.

Wes Hanson

Hopefully it will be construction. Once the permits are in place, we'd start construction of the roads and the airstrips and the underground facilities that we're looking to build.

Again, Noront's plan is an all-underground one. We're hopeful that this will become a model mine for the next century. It will be one of the greenest mines in the world, with limited environmental footprint and limited environmental impact. Everything will be stored underground. You should be able to walk over the mine site and see nothing except the camp and the airstrip.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB

Others who have come before this committee have said the permitting process was going to take significantly longer than what you've indicated here today. Because your mine site is underground, I'm assuming that's maybe a saving grace for you, but which departments have you been dealing with in the permitting process?

10:30 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Noront Resources Ltd.

Wes Hanson

Concerning the permitting, we're basically using the timelines that the various government agencies are giving us. One of the advantages we do have is not so much that it's underground—well, that's part of the benefit, so you're not creating a big hole in the sponge—but that we're avoiding most of the major river crossings with the route proposed for our road. They're already in place at Pickle Lake and elsewhere, so we're sort of coming off an established facility. We're working in areas that are previously disturbed. Our permanent road route follows the existing winter road route. We see these as benefits to the permitting process, which may give us a leg up, but we're basically assuming the timelines as stated by most government agencies and we're assuming that there'll be no snags or hang-ups.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB

Thank you.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you, Mr. Calkins.

Mr. Gravelle, you have up to five minutes. You may go ahead.

10:30 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

Thank you, Chair.

I've got a few more questions, but this time I've only got five minutes, so I'm going to try to make it quick.

Mr. McKinnon, I've heard you say several times today, “Tell us the rules.” If the government were to tell you there's going to be a full joint review process, would you be in agreement?

10:30 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, MacDonald Mines Exploration Ltd.

Kirk McKinnon

Absolutely.

10:30 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

Would you participate?

10:30 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, MacDonald Mines Exploration Ltd.

Kirk McKinnon

Absolutely.

10:30 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

Thank you, sir. Thank you very much.

My next questions are for the City of Sudbury and then to Chief Moonias.

The aboriginal skills and employment partnership has created 18,000 jobs for aboriginal workers in Canada since 2003. Can you tell me how important this program would be, first of all, to the City of Greater Sudbury, and then to the first nations?

10:30 a.m.

Councillor, City of Greater Sudbury

David Kilgour

Thank you very much for that question as well.

It's a little outside my area of expertise, but I've had two recent presentations over the past month, one from Cambrian College and the other from Laurentian University. I believe 30% of Cambrian College's enrolment in the trades is now fully native, which is absolutely amazing, and they're very proud of that. As for Laurentian University, they've got a full native graduate program coming out of there now. Once again, this is a definite move forward, not only for those two institutions but also for Canada as a whole and for the whole native or aboriginal group of people.

10:30 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

If I hear you correctly, those natives who wanted to work in the Ring of Fire could be trained in trades or engineering or all kinds of good things at the university in Sudbury?