Natural Resources Committee on Feb. 16th, 2012

[Wes Hanson]

I understand the confusion. We are moving forward—I mean the company. That's what we have to do in order to survive. That's not to say that we're moving forward and we're going to trample the human rights of the aboriginal peoples in the Ring of Fire. We want to negotiate with them, but I think that desire has to be reciprocated. They have to want to negotiate with us. It has been extraordinarily difficult.

Noront has had a great deal of success in working directly with a number of the communities in the Ring of Fire, including Marten Falls. We hope to continue to build on that relationship.

It's unfair to ask Noront to enter into an IBA negotiation until we really understand the true value of what it is we propose to develop. We'll have that in March or April. Then we'll be approaching the chief and his councillors, and not just those of Marten Falls but the other communities in the Ring of Fire as well. We'll be approaching the communities directly, not an umbrella organization, and start to negotiate IBAs with those communities based on the value of the deposit.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Let me ask you a question, and perhaps Mr. McKinnon as well. It's the question I put to Cliffs Natural Resources on Tuesday. Are your companies prepared to enter into equity participation agreements with first nations people?

[Wes Hanson]

If you want, I'll go first, or—

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Have you done it before? Have you actually entered into an equity arrangement with first nations people anywhere in the world?

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Go ahead, Mr. McKinnon.

[Kirk McKinnon]

Are you asking me?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

The question is to both of you, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Go ahead, Mr. McKinnon.

[Kirk McKinnon]

The answer is no.

Mr. McGuinty, I think we're putting the cart before the horse here. We're carving up pies that we don't have. I humbly submit that this James Bay activity is not moving forward unless Cliffs gets in the game—that's number one—and, in my subjective opinion, until there are more discoveries. The critical mass required to make James Bay go is borderline right now. The opportunity—

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. McKinnon, if we can we step back for a second—

[Kirk McKinnon]

Yes.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

—to even before putting the cart before the horse, what we're hearing from first nations people and leaders is that nothing is going to happen—

[Kirk McKinnon]

Well—

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

—until some kind of formal arrangement is going to be created—

[Kirk McKinnon]

I understand that.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

—between three or four parties: federal government, provincial government, private sector actors, and first nations representatives.

[Kirk McKinnon]

Okay, here's the issue. Chief Moonias certainly has his issues, and our problem is that he said that the area where the discoveries are falls within Marten Falls; he said it's not Webequie, etc. If you talk to the people at Webequie, they say they're in the mix. Attawapiskat says they are in the mix, and they are significantly farther east, and Kasabonika, who are northwest, says they're in the mix.

Who's going to adjudicate this, David? It's not us.

I take a little bit of offence from the chief when he talks about how poorly mining projects have moved forward in the north. I think Victor Mine did a very fine job. I think Lac de Gras did a very fine job. I think you hear from Sudbury that there were mistakes there and that through evolution the activity got better. If he would move forward in his comments and basically say what he really needs.... His community is having significant issues and the younger people are not tied to the areas that they used to be, but we don't get any pragmatism; we just get debates. Unless we get leadership—

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Who—

[Kirk McKinnon]

—from the government, because we.... I told you that the best form or the best agreement comes.... You can go and look at it in the province of Quebec. They have a blueprint.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Right, and we've—

[Kirk McKinnon]

I know you've heard it many times—

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

No, no, we haven't heard testimony on that, for sure. No.

[Kirk McKinnon]

—but on a singular basis, we cannot adjudicate for all the different communities. I respect that Chief Moonias has his issues, as the other ones do, but I humbly submit that we have a very tough environment in which to raise money and drive these businesses forward. To be deflected by having to deal with first nations issues.... Just tell us the rules. Make the rules, tell us the rules, and we'll all play by them. If you can get us there—

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Well, Mr. McKinnon, what we're hearing I think from first nations leaders—unless I'm misunderstanding—is that they're not going to be mere participants anymore. I think what we're hearing asserted by different first nations representatives is that they want to be beyond mere consultation. They want to be partners. They want to be part of the review process.

[Kirk McKinnon]

That's no problem. You tell us—