Evidence of meeting #7 for Natural Resources in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was north.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Mitch Bloom  Vice-President, Policy and Planning, Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency
Janet King  Assistant Deputy Minister, Northern Affairs Organization, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Sara Filbee  Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Wladyslaw Lizon Conservative Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

I have a question to Ms. King. In your presentation you mentioned there is an agency called Indian Oil and Gas Canada, which is responsible for obligations related to management of oil and gas on first nations lands.

Can you tell us more about what that agency is and what it does? One of the things you mentioned is that the agency collects money on behalf of first nations and that the money is held in trust accounts. Is there anything else they do? They're not simply collectors of the financial resources, are they?

5:15 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Northern Affairs Organization, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Janet King

Mr. Chair, again, this is under the responsibility of my colleague.

5:15 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Sara Filbee

Yes, IOGC, Indian Oil and Gas Canada, is a special operating agency. It's responsible for managing and regulating oil and gas resources on first nations reserve lands across Canada. It's headquartered in Calgary, but obviously it reports through me to the deputy minister and the minister of AANDC.

There are more than 50 first nations with active oil and gas agreements. All funds that we collect on their behalf are placed in their trust accounts.

At the top line, the functions of IOGC in assisting first nations with designated reserve lands in the oil and gas process are to help them negotiate, issue, and administer agreements with oil and gas companies; conduct environmental screenings; monitor oil and gas production and sales prices; verify, assess, and collect money such as bonuses, royalties, and rents; and ensure that legislative and contract requirements are met.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Wladyslaw Lizon Conservative Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

I have a question about these funds they collect on behalf of the first nations that have these agreements. By the way, are there any first nations that do not have agreements? You mentioned there are 56 with active agreements.

5:20 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Sara Filbee

If there are developments on reserve land, then Indian Oil and Gas Canada is involved. So this is the number of first nations that have developments on their lands.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Wladyslaw Lizon Conservative Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

What funds are they collecting on behalf of first nations? Are they simply royalties, or are they any funds that come before the development?

5:20 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Sara Filbee

Mostly royalties, bonuses, rents, but anything with respect to development of those particular resources.

Just to give you an idea, in the 2010–11 fiscal year, IOGC collected almost $257 million in oil and gas moneys, and over the last five fiscal years it has collected more than $1 billion on behalf of first nations.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Wladyslaw Lizon Conservative Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

How are these financial resources managed? Do they go back to the first nations, or what do they use them for?

5:20 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Sara Filbee

They go into trust accounts managed under the Indian moneys section of the department, but they accrue to the first nations.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Wladyslaw Lizon Conservative Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

Okay.

Is this a federal agency under the ministry of...?

5:20 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Sara Filbee

Yes, it's a special operating agency that reports to the minister. It’s headquartered in Calgary but reports to the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Wladyslaw Lizon Conservative Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

It sounds to me, correct me if I'm wrong, that this agency has some responsibilities that maybe overlap with other departments. Would that be the case?

5:20 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Sara Filbee

Not so much, because if they're federal reserve lands, clearly the provincial laws don't apply unless they're of general application. But if they're specific to reserve lands, they wouldn't apply. Obviously, the Department of Fisheries...if that would apply, that would apply as well. So it's not so much overlap; they're the only agency doing the regulatory work on behalf of oil and gas first nations.

Being that it is a complex world, there's always overlap somewhere, but it's not necessarily in conflict.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Wladyslaw Lizon Conservative Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

I have a question for Mr. Bloom.

Do you interact with this oil and gas agency in your work?

5:20 p.m.

Vice-President, Policy and Planning, Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency

Mitch Bloom

No, it doesn't operate in the areas we operate in.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Wladyslaw Lizon Conservative Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

It does not. Okay, thank you.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you, Mr. Lizon.

We go now to Mr. Anderson for up to five minutes. Go ahead, please.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

I talked a little earlier about the differences of either devolution or evolution of rights and responsibilities among the three entities in the north. I wonder if both organizations can talk a little on a practical level...do those different levels have an impact on you? How do you deal differently with Yukon, the Northwest Territories, and Nunavut? Does it make a difference when you're doing projects, and if so, how?

We're going to be writing a report at the end of this, so I think it's important that we're able to point out some of those differences, and perhaps some suggestions you might have for dealing with them.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Ms. King, go ahead.

5:20 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Northern Affairs Organization, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Janet King

Thank you for the question.

As I pointed out in our remarks, because of the different stages of devolution, the federal role in each one of those territories is different. In Yukon, I know that in my organization we no longer have regulatory responsibility for lands and waters and resources. CanNor continues to be involved from an economic development perspective.

In the NWT and in Nunavut, the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development continues to have the responsibility for administering lands and waters and so on in those territories. So we are closely involved in that case, in terms of the processes, the regulatory frameworks, and the ongoing interest in nurturing that development in the north.

On the specific responsibility to interplay, perhaps I'll....

5:25 p.m.

Vice-President, Policy and Planning, Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency

Mitch Bloom

It just means that there are more partners and that the partners are sometimes different. As Janet mentioned, in the Yukon, the Yukon government has been “devolved” these authorities, which AANDC continues to exercise within the other territories.

Land claims are also something that I'm sure the committee is going to want to look at. The agreeing to land claims results in certain bodies being created with respect to land management and environmental assessment, and that won't be the same even within individual territories.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Do you find your organization more involved or less involved in each of the territories given the fact that Indian and Northern Affairs plays a bigger role in one particularly than in others? Do you find yourself playing a smaller role there, or do you pretty much have the same role through the three territories?

5:25 p.m.

Vice-President, Policy and Planning, Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency

Mitch Bloom

The partners change; the role doesn't change. Our job is to align the federal efforts as best as possible. When AANDC is the regulator, as it is in two of the territories, they're the vital partner. In the Yukon, we don't have a federal partner to align, but we have to be cognizant and do our best to make sure that the project proponents are fully informed about their relationships there with the Yukon territorial government.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

You talked earlier a little bit about the IBAs, the impact and benefit agreements. Does anyone track the results of those? Do you folks track them and have any facts and figures on whether they've been effective or not?

5:25 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Northern Affairs Organization, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Janet King

They're actually confidential business arrangements, so it would be very difficult for a government to know.