Evidence of meeting #118 for Natural Resources in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was efficiency.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jean-Pierre Finet  Vice-President, Energy Services Association of Canada
Stephen MacDonald  Chief Executive Officer, Efficiency One
Amelia Warren  Director, Customer Experience and Partnerships, Efficiency One
Kent Hehr  Calgary Centre, Lib.
Mark Schembri  Vice-President, National Maintenance, Loblaw Companies Limited
Andrew Noseworthy  Assistant Deputy Minister, Clean Technology, Department of Industry
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Jubilee Jackson

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Good morning, everybody. Happy Thursday. Everybody is in a good mood today, I see. I think we all know why. This is the last meeting before our constituency week, which is the real reason everybody is so happy.

We have two witness groups joining us today in the first hour. Thank you very much.

From Efficiency One, we have Stephen MacDonald, chief executive officer; and Amelia Warren, director of customer experience and partnerships.

From Energy Services Association of Canada, we have Jean-Pierre Finet, vice-president.

Mr. Finet, I understand that you have provided a presentation which is in English only. It's going to be translated, but I think Mr. Finet is actually going to be delivering a lot of his remarks in French.

If everybody is okay with that, we can pass around the deck.

11:05 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

It will be translated subsequently. Thank you.

Before we get going, the other piece of information to mention is that the minister will be joining us on Thursday, November 22. He is coming to speak to us about the estimates, but also generally about his mandate as he's relatively new to the portfolio. We can look forward to that when we get back.

The process for today is that each group will be given up to 10 minutes to make their presentation, which they can do in French and/or English. This will be followed by a series of questions from members around the table.

Who wants to start us off? I'll leave it up to you.

11:05 a.m.

Jean-Pierre Finet Vice-President, Energy Services Association of Canada

Good afternoon, everyone.

I can answer questions in French and English. It's fine with me. I will provide you with a translated French version of the presentation as soon as possible afterwards.

My name is J.P. Finet. I represent the Energy Services Association of Canada. I'm here to talk to you about how energy performance contracting, as part of the energy-efficiency mode of intervention, can contribute to the Canadian Paris climate change commitments and also provide economic opportunities other than simply saving energy.

First, I'm going to talk to you briefly about who is part of the Energy Services Association of Canada. Briefly, I'm going to explain to you also very simply what is energy performance contracting and the benefits of energy performance contracting compared to other modes of intervention in the marketplace, and also the economic opportunities and environmental contributions ensuing from our work in the marketplace. Then after, you can ask all the questions you want.

The association was incorporated in August 2010. Our membership was founded by six very large companies. A lot of blue chip companies are in there, including Honeywell, Johnson Controls, Siemens, Ameresco, Trane, and MCW. However, we have more members than that. We also have Engie, which is the former GDF Suez, which is worth something like 60 billion euros. We have other energy service companies, but we also have manufacturers that are members of our association, such as Armstrong Fluid Technology, Philips Lighting, and so on.

These are all large, credible organizations. These companies represent approximately 90% or $300 million per year of guaranteed performance contracts in Canada. We represent where we do the most business.

I'll tell you what an energy performance contract is and what it is not. It's basically a partnering arrangement between a building owner and an energy service company. An energy service company is different from any other engineering firms in the sense that what distinguishes us from everyone else is that we guarantee savings. By the way, we intervene mostly in, I would say 90%, public buildings, so either federal or provincial buildings. Ten per cent would be the commercial sector. Basically we do a comprehensive review with guarantees that the savings will be sufficient to finance the cost of the project. If, for instance, in a case where we said we will save 30%—I say “we”; our members say we'll save 30%—in your building and they don't achieve that 30%, we compensate by writing a cheque for the difference. That's why we say the risk is on us. We transfer the risk and financial performance risk to the energy service company.

If you take a traditional engineering firm with their staff, they can make the exact same project, but they will just not guarantee the savings. That's why we provide over and above the traditional way of doing business.

On financing, there's a point I need to make. Our members don't make money from financing operations. Actually, they prefer not to finance. Many governments, like the Quebec government, for instance, even the federal government, use their own money, their own budgets, and we guarantee savings. But if there are clients...there are also some governments that prefer not to use their own money and use off-balance sheet accounting, then we can facilitate it as a pass on...the financing. We are linked to a lot of financial organizations, large banks that will provide the financing for the projects because they know that we are serious and we achieve savings.

As for how it works, before a partnership, the building owner and manager has an operating budget, with which he pays the utility bills. During our partnership, the operating budget is used to finance the energy-efficiency measures and the monitoring and performance reporting and so on, until the cost of the project is repaid. Then the customer—or the client, the building owner—retains all the savings once they have repaid all the costs of the project.

Our members basically make money on the inefficient use of energy, which we replace with the efficient use of energy. We've done a lot, by the way. There's the federal building initiative, a program of Natural Resources Canada that promotes energy performance contracting within the federal government organization. NRCan also provides coaching and qualifies facilitators who accompany building managers in these types of contracts. A lot of provinces also use energy performance contracting, but more could do so. Also, the private sector would gain by using more of this type of risk-free energy contracting.

There are key benefits. They include measurable accountability through performance-backed savings guarantees, and the mutual success guarantees partnering behaviours. Also, it's often used to offset costs around wider improvement initiatives, for instance, asset management. Regularly in our contracts in Canada and in Quebec, we're being asked to use the energy savings to finance asset management and improve the facility condition index of the building. For instance, a lot of schools in Quebec have suffered from a lack of investment through the years and now need a lot of reinvestment. Basically, energy savings also are used to finance these upgrades.

As well, it's a turnkey process with one contract and less coordination risk. If you want to do energy-efficiency projects within the federal government, you could do that on your own. You can hire people, be the mastermind, contract everything and be the general contractor, or you can hire an engineering firm. You can also hire an energy performance contractor, an ESCO, which will supervise everything, act as a general contractor and guarantee the savings.

Another benefit is that the contract value and energy savings are known before the installation commences, based on a detailed feasibility study. Also, there are full benchmarking, accountability and financial tracking. There's also, as I said earlier, a facilitator who accompanies the client in all of that; so there's a third party verification, if you will. As well, all of that is hedging against future increases in the cost of energy.

In terms of economic opportunities and environmental contributions, yes, we can focus, and this all depends on the RFPs that we answer. The criteria will vary by the function of the building and the priority of the client, but if we're asked to put a focus on greenhouse gas emissions reduction, we will put a focus on the measures that address that. For instance, in Quebec, if a building is heated with electricity, then we won't have as many greenhouse gas emissions, so we'll focus on other fuel sources.

As I said earlier, there's the possibility of allocating savings to asset maintenance and to improve the facility condition index, which is another economic opportunity. The fact is that energy-efficiency stimulates economic development and job creation in all regions of the country. Actually, in your case with the federal government, it's basically about leading by example. When you undertake an energy performance contract, you achieve savings and you show the rest of the marketplace how to do so.

If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer them whenever you want.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

That's perfect. Thank you very much.

Mr. MacDonald and Ms. Warren, who's going to start off on your side?

11:15 a.m.

Stephen MacDonald Chief Executive Officer, Efficiency One

I'll start, thank you.

Good morning, everyone. My name is Stephen MacDonald. I'm the chief executive officer of Efficiency One. With me is my colleague Amelia Warren, our director of customer experience and partnerships.

Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak with you today as part of your work on studying economic opportunities for energy efficiency. I have some prepared remarks to make, and I am anxious to answer questions as well.

Efficiency One is a North American leader in the design and delivery of energy-efficiency programs and services for households, businesses and institutions. Our model focuses on building industry capacity by partnering with a broad network of local businesses to deliver our services. These businesses include energy auditors, contractors, retailers, technical consultants, architects, builders and many more.

Currently, we work with more than 200 partners to offer advice, technical assistance and financial incentives to over 200,000 customers in Nova Scotia, as the franchise holder of Efficiency Nova Scotia, Canada's first and only energy-efficiency utility. As the franchise holder, Efficiency One has the exclusive right to supply Nova Scotia's electricity utility with reasonably available, cost-effective efficiency and conservation activities for a 10-year period. These activities are regulated by the Nova Scotia Utility and Review Board. Costs are included in electricity rates.

Efficiency One also administers programs to help homeowners reduce their use of home heating oil and other fuels, with support from the Government of Nova Scotia and the Government of Canada's low carbon economy fund. These programs focus on reducing the burden of energy costs on low-income households. They also include several innovative pilot programs and new incentives to support the adoption of solar photovoltaic systems.

One of our pilots focuses on partnering with Nova Scotia's 13 first nations communities to provide energy-efficient upgrades such as draft-proofing and insulation. These upgrades are expected to result in more than $1 million in lifetime savings for participants. The pilot also focuses on education and awareness building to enable future energy-efficiency activities in these communities.

Nova Scotia's focus on energy efficiency to date has reduced our electricity use by over 10%, while generating hundreds of millions of dollars in annual energy bill savings, money that will be recirculated in our economy for years to come. We are also on track to contribute more than one tonne of avoided CO2 for every Nova Scotian, every year. In fact, energy efficiency is one of the main reasons that Nova Scotia is on track to meet its climate change targets.

The Province of Nova Scotia has committed to expanding its energy-efficiency efforts, recognizing that these efforts are an extremely cost-effective way to reduce carbon emissions while supporting growth of the local economy. Our experience in Nova Scotia over the last 10 years is proof of the economic and environmental benefits that energy efficiency delivers.

What we have found is that energy-efficiency activities generate a significant portion of Nova Scotia's gross domestic product, and energy efficiency's share of GDP continues to grow. Our energy-efficiency industry directly provides over 1,400 full-time jobs with direct sector income valued at $83.5 million. The two subsectors that define Nova Scotia's energy-efficiency industry are non-construction firms that derive more than 50% of their revenue from energy-efficiency products or services, and firms that build energy-efficient residential homes or perform renovations to improve the efficiencies of residential and non-residential buildings.

Energy efficiency's share of Nova Scotia's GDP is valued at over $400 million. It's expected to grow by 5% over the next five years. That's compared to forecasted growth of about 2% for the rest of the province's GDP.

Government plays a critical role in helping the energy-efficiency sector achieve its growth potential. Through feedback from industry group participant surveys, respondents identified Nova Scotia's current incentive system as critical to sustaining and growing the industry. Respondents emphasized the continued need for government-supported financial incentives for energy-efficiency activities, including new rebate programs as well as the need for greater public awareness of energy efficiency and a skilled workforce.

Public opinion in Nova Scotia further supports the industry's feedback. Third party polling data shows that a significant majority of Nova Scotians consistently assign a high importance to reducing their energy use. What's more, a significant majority of Nova Scotians express a high level of agreement that adopting a more energy-efficient lifestyle adds to their quality of life.

While public demand for energy-efficiency programs and services is strong, Efficiency One's research consistently shows that cost is the most significant barrier to program participation. We believe there is significant opportunity to increase the adoption of deep energy-efficiency retrofits with innovative financing options and incentive programs.

In Nova Scotia, our most pressing gap, and our greatest opportunity, is in the non-residential, non-electric sector. In many cases, more than 60% of the energy used by facilities in this sector is in the form of natural gas, number two oil or bunker C oil. There are currently no rebate, incentive or support programs available in Nova Scotia to help these customers save non-electric energy.

I'll give you an example. A Halifax business owner, Duncan MacAdams, has invested in reducing energy use at four of his 50-plus-year-old multi-unit residential buildings. He's done this by transitioning from oil to a district heating system that relies on a combination of natural gas, biomass, solar, and ground-source heat pumps. Mr. MacAdams would like to further reduce his reliance on fossil fuels and eliminate his buildings' carbon footprint. He'd like to do this by adding additional solar and biomass capacity. However, support for projects such as Mr. MacAdams' is currently a funding gap in our portfolio.

Gaps like this exist in every province, and the role governments can play to support energy-efficiency activity across Canada goes beyond incentives and rebates. I would like to leave the committee with four recommendations for its consideration.

The first is to address the funding gaps that exist in energy-efficiency programs for industrial and/or multi-unit buildings for customers who use fuels like oil, natural gas or coal and who may wish to transition to low carbon or zero carbon options.

Second, government can play a critical role in training and skills development to grow a workforce that is prepared for a low carbon economy and that will benefit from the job opportunities created by increased energy-efficiency activity.

The third is to work in consultation with the private sector to leverage innovative and private sector financing options to assist in deep energy retrofits and upgrades of our building stock.

The fourth is to ensure there are public policy and regulatory standards, like national building codes, that can help drive demand for energy-efficiency products and services, and support market transformation.

The good news is that we are not starting from scratch. In Nova Scotia, we have a robust energy-efficiency market knowledge. We have expertise and we have industry capacity. We have a well-developed network of trade partners, and we have strong public awareness of and demand for energy-efficiency programs and services. The people, the companies and the know-how are ready and eager to contribute to Canada's economic and environmental prosperity.

Thank you.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Thank you, Mr. MacDonald.

Mr. Harvey, you're going to start us off.

November 8th, 2018 / 11:20 a.m.

Liberal

TJ Harvey Liberal Tobique—Mactaquac, NB

First of all, thank you to all the witnesses for being here.

I am going to start with Mr. MacDonald.

You touched on the funding gap around helping small businesses or residential tenants invest in the technology that's going to allow them to reduce their carbon footprints, and on the lack of funding that is available at this time.

How do you see that unfolding? How do you think the federal government can best play a willing role in some type of bilateral funding mechanism that's going to fill that gap or do you feel there should be more onus put on the provinces to fill that? How do you see that?

11:25 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Efficiency One

Stephen MacDonald

I think that both levels of government can play a role in filling that funding gap.

The federal government has recently come to the table through the low carbon economy fund and put a significant investment into energy efficiency in Nova Scotia. The majority of those dollars were directed to the residential, non-electric sector.

There is still an opportunity for the federal government to provide more funding to fill the gap for the non-residential, non-electric sector. The Province of Nova Scotia has shown some interest in the past, but I think there is an opportunity for both levels of government to play a role.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

TJ Harvey Liberal Tobique—Mactaquac, NB

Mr. Finet, is this something you see as a common problem across jurisdictions throughout the country, or is it something you think is more regionally specific to certain areas?

11:25 a.m.

Vice-President, Energy Services Association of Canada

Jean-Pierre Finet

Do you mean the lack of funding?

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

TJ Harvey Liberal Tobique—Mactaquac, NB

Yes.

11:25 a.m.

Vice-President, Energy Services Association of Canada

Jean-Pierre Finet

Actually, it's everywhere. It's a general barrier, but it's not the only one. There are things the federal government could do, such as promoting energy performance contracting but also maybe guaranteeing loans and so on. That could help reassure the marketplace.

There are other barriers, such as split incentives. For instance, businesses in strip malls have a business place, but they have limited power of action on their energy consumption and energy savings. They don't own the building. They rent it. Green leases that address the issue of shared benefits and split incentives should be promoted.

As we go into deep retrofits, there are longer payback periods. The federal government can help by reducing these longer payback periods for deeper retrofits. When you start looking at building envelopes, they cost a lot. There are other solutions done elsewhere that are more regulatory. For instance, I think in Burlington and Oakland, in the U.S., when a building is sold, they automatically have to bring it up to code.

There are different avenues. There are different solutions. Some are financial, some are regulatory and some are organizational, such as green leases and so on. There are different barriers and different solutions for different barriers.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

TJ Harvey Liberal Tobique—Mactaquac, NB

If the federal government were to expand upon what's already being done investment-wise to try to put a significant dent in this issue, what do you think the number one target area would be? What type of technology could best be employed to have the most significant impact per dollar value of taxpayers' money?

11:25 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Efficiency One

Stephen MacDonald

The number one need, I believe, is industrial energy efficiency, meaning industrial facilities and industrial manufacturing processes. That's the case in Nova Scotia, but I also know it's the case across Canada. That was brought out in the Generation Energy Council report. There are significant targets for increasing Canada's level of industrial energy efficiency. In my view, that is the number one sector.

In terms of a specific technology, it really differs by facility and by its use of energy. We found that in some cases, investing in combined heat and power generation is a need and gets at deep energy retrofits. It really depends on the facility, though, in terms of the type of technology.

11:25 a.m.

Vice-President, Energy Services Association of Canada

Jean-Pierre Finet

If I may add, it depends exactly on which market or which sector we're looking at. We're intervening mostly in the commercial, industrial, institutional sector, but less industrial, because when companies have processes, it's kind of tricky to play into their processes.

If you look at the residential market, my personal belief is that, technology-wise, heat pumps, air source heat pumps, not necessarily ground-source heat pumps, will pave the way. I don't understand why NRCan hasn't come up with anything yet at this stage. Heat pumps would be a big asset.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

TJ Harvey Liberal Tobique—Mactaquac, NB

In closing, if there's one take-home message I've heard from both of you, it is that the federal government stands to have the biggest impact in terms of a reduction in emissions by investing in technologies with small, medium, and large businesses to help them become more energy efficient.

Thank you.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

There is another minute left.

Mr. Serré.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Marc Serré Liberal Nickel Belt, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for you, Mr. MacDonald. You made some recommendations regarding Canada's energy efficiency, and I thank you for them. You mentioned the investment of the Canada Infrastructure Bank, the national code and the labour shortage.

I'd like to know if you worked with the Infrastructure Bank or CMHC to see whether there were any opportunities to support changes in that regard. Do you have any recommendations for CMHC or the Infrastructure Bank?

11:30 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Efficiency One

Stephen MacDonald

We have not had direct discussions with the Canada Infrastructure Bank or other financial institutions, but we are a part of a conversation that's happening across Canada that's being led by a relatively new organization, Efficiency Canada. I believe they may have presented to this committee recently.

One of the proposals or initiatives that Efficiency Canada is embarking on—and it does have the support of organizations like Efficiency One across Canada—is seeing whether there's a way to access some of the resources of the Canada Infrastructure Bank to help spur financing in energy-efficiency projects.

We talked earlier about the opportunities in industrial energy efficiency. These are large projects involving deep retrofits. There is an opportunity for the Canada Infrastructure Bank to help backstop some of those projects. If, in the case of my friend Jean-Pierre, the private sector doesn't yet have an interest in those projects, the Canada Infrastructure Bank can help accelerate some of them.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Thank you very much.

Mr. Falk, you're next.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for coming to committee. Obviously, we're looking at energy efficiency across Canada. It was interesting to listen to your presentations.

Mr. MacDonald, you talked about how the government can help generate energy efficiencies, but what kind of return on investment are you looking for?

11:30 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Efficiency One

Stephen MacDonald

Do you want to take that one?

11:30 a.m.

Amelia Warren Director, Customer Experience and Partnerships, Efficiency One

Yes. I think one of the parts of energy efficiency that is so interesting is it's one of the few solutions out there where you can clearly see the return on investment. In our case, because we are a regulated entity, we have to be able to measure all the money we spend, all the savings we generate with that spending to report back to the regulator and to show that return on investment.

Even when we talk about investing in industrial facilities, we are often asked why we would have to give incentives to companies where there is that return on investment. Would they not be making those investments on their own? One of the things we've seen in our own calculations is that for every dollar we spend on incentives, large companies are spending two to three dollars in additional project costs.

As you can imagine, the types of projects you're doing in energy efficiency are bringing in local businesses to install those projects. They're purchasing that equipment or those building supplies in the local economy. In terms of that return on investment, yes, there are the bill savings, the carbon reduction, but there's also the additional spending it generates within those companies in the local economy.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB

I appreciate and understand that, but I'm guessing why your organization would feel there needs to be government intervention in financing incentives. If what you're suggesting to companies makes sense from an energy-efficiency perspective, if it's going to help them save dollars, why wouldn't they make that investment on their own?