Evidence of meeting #123 for Natural Resources in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was construction.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jim Lord  Founding Principal, Ecovert Corporation
Ragui Barsoum  Principal, Ecovert Cx Corporation, Ecovert Corporation
Amarjeet Sohi  Minister of Natural Resources
Kent Hehr  Calgary Centre, Lib.

11:40 a.m.

Founding Principal, Ecovert Corporation

Jim Lord

The small-scale projects are much harder, just because the budgets are much smaller. We did a 2,000 square foot facility. You can't have $100,000 in consulting fees on a 2,000 square foot facility. There's only so much analysis that you can do in that type of a facility, whereas for a larger one, you can take advantage of different things, such as moving heat from one part of the building to another part of the building. There are more opportunities in the larger scale facilities for coming up with comprehensive strategies, but for the smaller ones, you keep to the simple stuff—lots of insulation and high-efficiency equipment. You tackle them differently, but they can all be successful.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Geng Tan Liberal Don Valley North, ON

Okay, thanks.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

We're going to have to stop there.

Gentlemen, thank you very much for joining us today. Unfortunately, we've run out of time. We have to move on to the next phase of our meeting.

We're very grateful for your contributing to the study and finishing it off for us.

We're going to suspend now for a couple minutes. This is a reminder that everyone is allowed to have one staff member only during committee business when we're in camera. Everybody else is invited to return at noon sharp.

[Proceedings continue in camera]

[Public proceedings resume]

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Good afternoon, everybody. Thank you for joining us today.

I'd like to welcome our Minister of Natural Resources. Thank you, sir, for joining us today. I know this is the first opportunity you've had to come and speak to us since you've assumed this position. We are very grateful for that. I know you've expressed an interest since the summer in coming to talk to us. Our schedule and your schedule make it difficult sometimes to make that happen. On behalf of the committee, I'd like to express our gratitude.

One thing about this committee is that we are very proud of the fact that we are collegial. We get along well. We work well together. We identify issues that we have in common and solutions that we like to work towards together. That is going to be the prevailing theme today, I believe, on both sides of the table, which I would like to emphasize.

You know the process. We certainly don't need to explain that to you, sir.

I'm going to open the floor to you now and then we will get to questions after that.

Thank you.

December 6th, 2018 / noon

Amarjeet Sohi Minister of Natural Resources

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you so much for having me.

Good afternoon to all the committee members and everyone else who is present in the room. Thank you for inviting me to make this presentation. As you said, this is my first appearance at the committee as Canada's Minister of Natural Resources.

I would like to begin by making two important acknowledgements. The first is to acknowledge that we are gathered here on the traditional territory of Algonquin people. The second is to acknowledge Minister Carr and the extraordinary work that he did as my predecessor in this portfolio.

As we all know, Canada's natural resources—oil and gas, wind, solar, forestry and mining—have been a source of well-paying middle-class jobs. It is our government's goal to ensure that this growth continues for decades to come. In Canada, we also have an advantage that goes well beyond the abundance of natural resources. It is the expertise and the experience we have in developing them sustainably and competitively.

It was Canadian resourcefulness that unlocked the secret of getting oil out of sand. It is the same innovation that is reducing the industry's environmental footprint. I saw that innovation first-hand at Goldcorp gold mine in Chapleau, Ontario, where all vehicles are run on electric battery, reducing the environmental footprint as well as creating clean jobs. This innovation has occurred in part because of the investments we are making in the adoption of clean technologies, helping not only to lower emissions but to reduce long-term operating costs.

Canada's advantage will continue to grow with the increasing global demand for raw materials that are produced sustainably and responsibly, the raw materials that we have in abundance in Canada: wood and wood products that will help us combat a changing climate; metals and minerals such as lithium, graphite, cobalt, nickel, copper and rare earth elements that are used in everything from solar cells and wind turbines to the batteries for electric cars.

Canada has one of the world's cleanest electricity mixes to power our low-carbon future. Our government is building on all of this by investing $26.9 billion in clean infrastructure, which includes investments in renewable energy, energy efficiency, smart grids and more.

Canada's natural resources are not just the historical backbone of our economy, they are the key to our clean growth future and creating good, well-paying jobs, the kinds of jobs that expand our middle class, that raise our standard of living and improve our quality of life in every province and territory.

That is why our government also supported LNG Canada's $40-billion project on the west coast of British Columbia, paving the way for the single-largest private sector investment in Canadian history. It's a project that will create 10,000 jobs at the height of its construction and millions of dollars in new contracts for indigenous businesses. This project will open new global markets for Canadian natural gas, displacing other fuels that emit higher levels of greenhouse gas emissions, offering greater global energy security and a greener future.

Our fall economic statement will support more of these opportunities with the new tax incentives and investments to enhance the competitiveness of the resource sectors, making Canadian companies better able to invest in their own growth and making Canada a more attractive place to do business.

A number of these new measures directly target emerging challenges in the natural resources sector, such as softwood lumber prices that have certainly fallen off recent peak highs, and a dwindling timber supply in areas ravaged by the mountain pine beetle and wildfires. That is why we announced an additional $100 million in the strategic innovation fund to support Canada's forestry sector.

We have also renewed the mineral exploration tax credit for a full five years, to maintain Canada's position as one of the world's most competitive jurisdictions for investing in exploration.

We have responded to recommendations from leaders in the oil and gas industry, including new tax incentives to permit the full writeoff of machinery and equipment used in the refining and processing of oil and gas, allowing for the creation of even more value-added products.

Now, let me turn to the price differential on Canadian oil. This price differential is the direct result of previous governments' failure to build pipelines, expand to non-U.S. markets and reduce our dependency on a single customer: the United States. This problem was further compounded by the scheduled seasonal maintenance at four refineries in the U.S. Midwest that caused a temporary drop in demand. This, combined with increasing production from the oil sands, created an extraordinary price discount on Canadian resources.

I want to reassure you that our government has made the price differential—and the issue of market access in general—an urgent priority. That is why we established a working group of senior officials from the federal government and western provinces to lead our efforts.

While we welcome the news that all four U.S. refineries, and the million barrels per day they process, are back online, we know that additional pipeline capacity is required to address increased production. This is why our government approved the Line 3 replacement project. Construction of this project is under way, and will come into operation in the fourth quarter of 2019. That is why we have always supported Keystone XL. I spoke with Secretary Perry to offer our ongoing support last week.

It is also why we purchased the Trans Mountain pipeline and related infrastructure when it faced political headwinds, because we know market access to customers other than the United States is the long-term solution to the price differential.

We know we need to get our oil resources moving, and all solutions are on the table to accomplish that, from increasing rail capacity to rethinking how access to existing pipelines is allocated. In fact, I have written to the National Energy Board, asking it to report on options for optimizing pipeline use in western Canada. Earlier today, I met with Minister Garneau and rail shippers to discuss rail solutions.

I am a proud Albertan. I am seeing first-hand the pain this price differential is causing for hard-working men and women in my home province. It is affecting families, neighbours and friends. The status quo cannot and will not continue. The good news is that when Canadians work together, as we are on the price differential, there is nothing we cannot overcome.

Mr. Chair, this might be a good place to stop and welcome any questions that committee members may have. Thank you once again for having me here today.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

It's our pleasure, Minister, and thank you for your remarks.

First up, we have the honourable Kent Hehr.

12:10 p.m.

Kent Hehr Calgary Centre, Lib.

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the minister for coming to committee today. I know he understands the Canadian energy sector and that it is very important to him. It's very close to his heart. He and I have discussed this in great detail, and we understand that neighbours of ours, friends of ours and people we've worked with are deeply affected by the downturn in the Alberta economy. I know he gives a great deal of thought to this. I'm just pleased he's here today.

The price differential—the money we receive—for Western Canadian Select is about 15% of its real value. What has caused this? Well, it's been decades in the making. The private industry always thought the United States would need our oil, and they built pipelines to fill that market. We understand now that we need to open and access new markets. Further, we understand that to get pipelines built in the 21st century, we need to treat the environment as a serious concern, as well as getting indigenous consultation right.

On this point, the Conservatives failed for 10 years to get our oil to non-U.S. markets. In 2006, when they came to power, 99% of our oil went to the United States. Ten years later, 99% of our oil was still going to that singular market. As any economist will tell you, if you have only one customer, you have to accept the price they're willing to give. Today, and every day, we see the consequences of this decade of inaction.

Minister, I know you've given great thought to this. What are we doing to end the decade of failure by the former Conservative government to get our energy products to new markets, and a second thing I think it's important to know, to correct the failed approach to regulatory approvals instituted by that government?

12:15 p.m.

Minister of Natural Resources

Amarjeet Sohi

Thank you so much for that question. As I said earlier, I know many people in Alberta who have been struggling for the last number of years, starting with the downturn in oil prices that started in 2014 and has led to thousands of layoffs, families struggling and people worrying about their future and the future of their kids.

We started taking action immediately upon coming into office. We extended stabilization funding of $250 million to the Province of Alberta. We extended EI benefits, beyond regular EI benefits that Canadians qualify for, to 22 weeks, which has led to additional support of $1.3 billion for struggling families during those difficult times.

Now we are taking action on pipeline capacity. Also, Alberta is a province that exports many commodities, including oil and gas, to other countries, so the conclusion of NAFTA is absolutely a benefit to the oil and gas sector. Through those negotiations, we were able to eliminate unnecessary tariffs and fees, resulting in a saving of $60 million per year for the oil and gas sector, particularly the oil sands sector.

We will continue to work to improve our regulatory process. What we have in place has led to failure—a lack of pipeline capacity that we're seeing today, which is causing so much pain and grief and costing billions of dollars that we are losing. That's why Bill C-69 is a very important piece of legislation that will fix the broken system we currently have. It creates a balance between the environment and the obligation to consult with indigenous peoples, at the same time allowing us to grow our economy.

This is a good example of how economic growth and environmental sustainability can go hand in hand. That's exactly what we are focused on, moving forward: to fix the flaws of a regulatory process that we inherited.

12:15 p.m.

Calgary Centre, Lib.

Kent Hehr

I think it is important that you pointed out that the 2012 approach they put in place for regulatory matters managed to lead to the stalled approach in which we are today. We're unable to move projects forward to move the nation forward.

Bill C-69 has “one project, one review”. I think this will simplify things and make things clearer. Is that the goal of the legislation, to try to make things smoother, quicker and more efficient?

12:15 p.m.

Minister of Natural Resources

Amarjeet Sohi

The goal of Bill C-69 is to ensure that we have a process in place that improves the transparency of decision-making, allows good projects to move forward in the quickest way possible and allows for the “one project, one review” philosophy. It also gives flexibility to provinces, such that if they want to substitute their own review process for the federal review process, the bill allows them to do so.

This is legislation that is fixing the changes that were made in 2012, which gutted the environmental protection of water and of fish and took away the ability of Canadians to participate in the regulatory process. We saw thousands and thousands of Canadians marching in the streets in 2012, opposing that 2012 legislation. It has really polarized the political atmosphere in Canada, which is not helping our energy sector in any shape or way.

We are trying to fix all those flaws in the process.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Mr. Falk or Mr. Schmale, are you going to start us off?

It is Ms. Stubbs. All right. Thank you.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister and officials, for being here today.

Minister, I just want to clarify the record on the northern gateway.

You've said multiple times this fall that the court quashed the northern gateway pipeline. In fact, recently in an interview, you said that “any intelligent person” would know that the court quashed the northern gateway.

Let me just read from that court ruling. The court said, “remit the matter back to the Governor in Council for a prompt redetermination”. The Governor in Council, of course, being the Prime Minister and the cabinet. The court did not kill this pipeline. It gave your government the chance to redo consultations.

On November 29, 2016, the Prime Minister personally said the Government of Canada “has directed the National Energy Board to dismiss” the application of the northern gateway pipeline.

The Liberal cabinet order says, “the Governor General in Council”—that being the cabinet, including you—“on the recommendation of the Minister of Natural Resources...directs the Board to dismiss Northern Gateway Pipelines Limited Partnership's application”.

Your own personal website says you “are fulfilling our environmental responsibilities by rejecting the Northern Gateway proposal and imposing a moratorium on crude oil tanker traffic along British Columbia's north coast”.

Will you tell Albertans why you vetoed the northern gateway pipeline, which would have allowed access to the Asia-Pacific?

12:20 p.m.

Minister of Natural Resources

Amarjeet Sohi

The ruling from the Federal Court of Appeal was very clear that the previous government failed to get the review process for the northern gateway right, so the court quashed that decision. That is a fact. We can't change the facts.

We were also clear during the campaign that building a pipeline through that part of British Columbia was not the right decision to start with.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

Correct. That's what you said in the campaign, which was a political intervention and a political decision.

When you were elected, that's why you chose.... Instead of taking the option the court offered to you to redo consultation with indigenous communities, you, as a cabinet member and the Prime Minister outright vetoed the northern gateway pipeline.

Thank you for clarifying that fact, that it was your political intention, even back in the campaign.

12:20 p.m.

Minister of Natural Resources

Amarjeet Sohi

I think it's....

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

My second question is on the—

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Ms. Stubbs, he was in the middle of his answer.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

Yes, but I have the floor.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

You do have the floor, but he was in the middle of answering—

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

I wasn't asking a—

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

He was in the midst of answering the question. I think it's a matter of courtesy to allow him to finish.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

I got the answer, thank you. I'd like to move on to the Trans Mountain—

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

He wasn't finished with his answer and I'm going to let him finish.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

He was.

I'd like to move on to questions about the Trans Mountain expansion.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Minister, were you finished with your answer?