Natural Resources Committee on April 30th, 2019

[Amarjeet Sohi, Liberal, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

The other goal is to spur more innovation and investment in zero-emission vehicles as part of our overall climate change plan. That's the reason this incentive is provided.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thank you, Minister.

By how many cents will your government's new fuel standard increase the cost of a litre of diesel, a litre of gasoline and a cubic metre of natural gas?

[Amarjeet Sohi, Liberal, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

The discussion around fuel standards is being led by Minister McKenna at ECCC. They are in discussions with industry stakeholders. We will make sure that we always keep our competitiveness in mind when we launch any policy, making sure that middle-class Canadians who work hard every day to be part of the middle class, that their living remains affordable. That's why—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

The policy has been posted on your department's website for months, and I just find it incredible that after two years of developing the policy, Liberal ministers don't seem to be able to answer how much it would cost Canadians.

The Chemistry Industry Association of Canada says the fuel standard will be the equivalent of a $200 a tonne carbon tax. Industry is saying anywhere between $150 to $280 a tonne carbon tax, and your government provided a 95% exemption from the carbon tax for large emitters, as the environment minister said, “to stay competitive and keep good jobs in Canada”.

If those companies, according to that analysis, will do what Conservatives have been warning about for years, shut down their businesses and kill jobs in Canada if they pay more than 5% of your carbon tax, how can you rationalize imposing these dramatic costs on those same businesses in the new fuel standard?

[Amarjeet Sohi, Liberal, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

I look forward to meeting with the association tomorrow. We have been working very closely with the petrochemical industry as well. I was back home in Alberta last week announcing $49 million that is going to generate $4.5 billion of new investment in Alberta's economy.

It is in the best interest of all that our industry remain competitive.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

To that end, I hope you will advocate very aggressively that the government know what it's doing before it imposes this policy since the cost-benefit analysis says there are no models to determine emissions reductions credit supply or the economic impacts of the fuel standard.

Mr. Chair, I would like to move a motion:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee immediately invite the Minister of Natural Resources to appear before the Committee on Thursday, June 20, 2019, for no less than a full meeting, to advise the Committee of the government’s plan to build the Trans Mountain Expansion; and that this meeting be televised.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

I would propose we set aside some time for committee business this Thursday because we have time in our schedule. We can deal with the motion then and that doesn't eat into our time here.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Yes, I look forward to that. I'm sure the minister will be more than willing to come to tell Canadians about the start date of construction, the timeline for construction, the in-service date of the Trans Mountain expansion, how much it will cost taxpayers, and also the plans on whether or not the Trans Mountain expansion will be built and then operated in the long term by the private sector.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you. We'll discuss that on Thursday, then.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Great.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Mr. Graham, the floor is yours to finish it off.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I have a couple of quick questions before I get into the forestry industry, which is obviously important to my riding.

This is just a quick question. Eight years ago the Conservatives sold AECL, or a chunk of it, for $15 million. I'm wondering how we did on our investment. We sold it for $15 million, but we still have to put quite a lot of money into AECL. Was it a good idea to sell it eight years ago, or sell a chunk of it?

[Amarjeet Sohi, Liberal, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

I would have to get back to you on that question.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I think my point is made.

I want to build on Mr. Cannings' question earlier. As you know, forestry is a very important industry in my large rural riding not far from here. I want to thank you first of all for the helpful announcement to Uniboard two weeks ago, which will be an enormous help in greening the factory we have in a very défavorisée part of the riding that has a lot of economic issues. It will help save a lot of jobs in this area. It's one of the biggest players I have in my riding.

The forestry industry has faced a lot of challenges in the last few years. In 1987 in my riding we lost the railways. They were ripped out and they were sold for scrap. In 1990 we lost the ability to log drive. Also, we've had a lot of problems with the American trade sanctions on forest products that have caused untold trouble. We have only one road in and out of the riding that can be used for logging, and we have now a worker shortage, which is impacting the ability to keep the businesses running.

What can you tell us about what we can do for the forestry sector, short term and long term, and also in terms of expanding second and third transformation, which we do very little of in my area?

[Amarjeet Sohi, Liberal, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

Through you, Mr. Chair, I can highlight a number of things. Some are related to my ministry, and some are not.

For example, there is the $2-billion rural infrastructure fund that allows roads to be constructed in the rural communities, or the $2-billion trades corridor fund that communities can access. An investment of $250 million was allocated in budget 2019 to foster more innovation and diversify the sector and help it grow. The forestry sector is a very important sector for Canada, and yes, it is facing challenges as far as relations with the U.S. are concerned. The three trade agreements that our government has signed absolutely open up so much potential for our products to be imported because we have the best product. We have the way we harvest and environmental sustainability in the practices. I think that absolutely those are some of the things we have been doing.

I don't know, DM, if you want to elaborate on some of the other support systems that we have in place in the forestry sector.

[Christyne Tremblay, Deputy Minister, Department of Natural Resources]

Thank you, Chair. We're recognizing the importance of the forest sector and we're working on many fronts.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

You can answer in French if you want.

[Christyne Tremblay]

Okay.

We are working on several fronts, the first of which is the competitiveness of the sector. Together with all provinces and territories, we have developed a forest bioeconomy framework, which will allow us to diversify forest products and add to their value. The framework is actually the first item on the agenda for the Canadian Council of Forest Ministers meeting, which starts this evening.

Second, we are making huge investments in innovation. The most recent budget devoted the major sum of $100 million to the area. The money comes from strategic investment funds for promising projects, such as biofuels and high value-added wood products.

Third, we are making substantial investments in market diversification so that Canadian wood can be used overseas. Major projects are underway in China, including Tianjin, where we are demonstrating ways to include wood in construction and how that contributes to our efforts to fight climate change.

Fourth, as the minister mentioned, the government is providing significant assistance to the softwood lumber industry. His plan was not only to help the workers and the companies targeted by the countervailing duties, but also to encourage market and product diversification. The plan has worked very well. Also today, the minister will chair a working group, made up of all ministers with responsibility for forests, that is monitoring the health of our forestry sector and ensuring that measures are in place to assist local communities, workers and the industry.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

My time is up.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you, Mr. Graham.

Minister, thank you very much. That's all the time we have in the first hour. It goes by very quickly. We're very grateful to you for taking the time and making yourself available to join us today, as always.

We're going to suspend for just two minutes, and then Ms. Tremblay and Ms. Crosby are going to stay, and some other officials will be joining us for the second hour.

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Welcome back, everybody. Thank you for being so good with the time. We are continuing now.

We have six departmental officials with us.

Thank you for staying and being with us here today. We have the deputy minister and five assistant deputy ministers. I would think that would be a pretty hard panel to stump when we're talking about this, not to set the bar too high, of course.

We're going to jump right into questions and having put that out there, Mr. Hehr, it's your job to try to stump them first.

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I doubt I will be able to do that.

I know that with increased climate change we're seeing the ravages of flooding and environmental impacts throughout the country. We see an increase in those in ever-increasing numbers. I think it was stated that a rise in contributions from the federal purse is going out to cover these damages each and every day.

In any event, I know that in the estimates NRCan is seeking $11.1 million to ensure better disaster management preparation, response and improved emergency management in Canada.

Can you describe what these will go towards funding?

[Christyne Tremblay]

Thank you.

I am very pleased that you raised that question, which unfortunately is very much in the news, given the flooding we are seeing in Quebec and Ontario. They cause major costs in economic terms, but also in human terms that must be considered. Often these natural disasters threaten the safety and resilience of people as well as the protection of their possessions. This is important. We have to be very responsible in the way we deal with these disasters.

We are increasingly realizing that we have to build communities that are much more resilient in the face of disasters such as floods or forest fires. In the last budget, the Department of Natural Resources received $88 million over five years so that we can work with the provinces and territories on measures to increase the resilience of communities. A major part of that funding will go to forest fire prevention.

I am pleased that I have been asked a number of questions on the forests today. In the last year, all provinces and territories have focused on ways to fight forest fires and to ensure that communities are better prepared to face those disasters. A Canada-wide plan on forest fires has just been developed. All provinces and territories support it, but there are also initiatives that have to be considered.

Some people may not be able to hear me. Do you want me to stop, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Yes, for Mr. Cannings.