Natural Resources Committee on June 6th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you. That's your time.

Mr. Trost, over to you.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's good to be back on a committee on which I've sat for 10 years over my time in the House of Commons.

I'm curious about a couple of things you didn't mention, so I'll go there. MPMO, the major projects management office, has been a major initiative of Natural Resources Canada and has an absolutely critical role in working with natural resource mining projects at a certain level. I was curious to know if you can give any updates as to any evaluations of the office program and any new initiatives that have been coming out of the MPMO.

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

The major projects management office is a big part of mining development in Canada. Sometimes as much as 80% of the projects going through the Canadian environmental assessment process are mining projects.

In terms of the question on reviews, that's not my direct area of expertise. I'd like to take that back, Mr. Chair, to the department and come back with that information for you.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Fair enough.

I'm going to ask about GEM. Is someone able to answer if I ask a question about the latest initiatives with the GEM program? What's the latest on that program?

Funding is continuing to go ahead. We're into phase two. Again, most recent evaluations of results, programming, any updates that you can give would be useful as it's also another major initiative.

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

I am familiar with the GEM program because it is foundational for mining and energy development in Canada. In terms of the latest updates and evaluations, Mr. Chair, I will need to go back to my colleague to bring that forward. The past evaluations of GEM have shown a leveraging factor of 1:5 in terms of public sector investments stimulating investment by the private sector, as it reduces the risk to exploration.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

I have another question.

Flow-through shares were extended for one year in the federal budget. One of the issues I've been hearing about from the industry is that one-year extensions make it a bit hard to plan for future exploration years. I know the finance minister is the better person to answer this question, but is there any thinking as to how this could be more closely worked with, with the industry, to get rid of uncertainty, and what other things can be done to encourage junior exploration?

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

In the 2016 budget there was an announcement of a review of some of the tax measures. That may very well be done there. As the committee will know, that work is all under the purview of the Minister of Finance, so he would be best positioned to respond to that.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Fair enough on that one.

I have a broader question, then. When we look at this industry, a lot of people see it as merely a bunch of rocks on the ground; you dig them up, and you go sell those rocks. If you haven't worked in the industry, that's where it is. There is an immense human capital that goes into this in Canada and Australia. Essentially, the frontier of the British Empire tends to be at the lead of this.

Has Natural Resources Canada been involved or done any sort of look—and, again, this would overlap with other departments—as far as the needs for the industry going forward with human capital, a skilled labour force are concerned? Some of these skills are very transferable, but some, like geologists, geophysicists, specific mining skills, are not.

Is Natural Resources Canada working on or involved in that in any way, shape, or form, as far as looking forward to our industry is concerned?

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

In terms of developing the human capital, Natural Resources Canada has recognized that it has a responsibility to support some of that development, whether it's hiring summer students, geology students, or post-docs in a number of its science programs.

One concrete example is the CanmetMining lab. Budget 2015 announced a research and development project on rare earth and chromite. Through that program, a concerted area that we wanted to support was the development of that human capital through the employment of post-docs, who would then take that knowledge back out into industry. More information on that subject can be obtained from the Mining Industry Human Resources Council.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Specifically, in that regard—and I asked in the broader industry—someone once told me that the Natural Resources department—and I don't know if this includes the geological survey of Canada or not, but it might—is actually the highest educated, as far as level of education, of all the departments in the government. I don't know if that's true or not.

Your ministry and the geological survey of Canada are also important elements of this. Internally, as far as a government department and the geological survey goes, are you looking at plans to ensure your internal needs are met, as far as this industry going forward is concerned, for human capital needs?

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

Mr. Chair, in our talent management and recruitment efforts, we always have a view to emerging challenges and how, as a science-based department, we can best support government efforts, whether it's through informing regulations, encouraging industry to adopt, for example, green mining practices, and building the expertise to support that.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Am I done?

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Yes, you're done.

Mr. Cannings, over to you.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Okay, and thank you.

Thank you all for coming here today.

As you pointed out at the start of your presentation, many mining projects are in close proximity to indigenous communities, and in Minister Carr's mandate letter, the Prime Minister states:

No relationship is more important to me and to Canada than the one with Indigenous Peoples. It is time for a renewed, nation-to-nation relationship with Indigenous Peoples, based on recognition of rights, respect, co-operation, and partnership.

I applaud the Prime Minister on this, and we've been waiting to see examples of this new approach. With that in mind, has the 20-year-old minerals and metal policy been updated by the Government of Canada to reflect this new approach, and if not, when can we expect to have that update completed?

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

Mr. Chair, I believe the question refers to the minerals and metals policy that was released in Whitehorse.

In terms of indigenous participation, NRCan has undertaken a number of activities. We have an aboriginal mining guide that I'd be happy to share with the committee, if you're interested. We've recently hosted a number of workshops for first nations with first nations communities, one in Sioux Lookout and one in Thunder Bay, which helped inform that readiness for mineral resource development and capacity building. I'm pleased to show the results from that workshop as well.

There are lots of efforts under way at a practical, on-the-ground level as well as some of the broader information tools to support readiness and to learn more about the mining development cycle and the opportunities.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

What is Natural Resources Canada doing to ensure adequate consultation with aboriginal communities with regard to developmental projects in the mining sector?

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

Mr. Chair, one of the interesting things about Natural Resources Canada is that we are the responsible regulator for explosives, and as a regulator for explosives that are used in natural resource extraction and development, we're part of the whole-of-government consultation with the EA process going forward.

That's one of our major ways of working to the duty to consult as a regulator and, more informally, there are the examples that I was alluding to earlier such as the workshop and supporting the participation of aboriginal and indigenous people in mining development in Canada.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Who is responsible for consulting with and accommodating the concerns of indigenous peoples?

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

In terms of the environmental assessment process, the lead for the Government of Canada is the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency. They are responsible for moving forward with the duty to consult and framing the accommodation. That work is informed by the technical and scientific expertise of other federal government departments, for example, Environment and Climate Change Canada, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, and Natural Resources Canada as an explosives regulator. That's how we position the whole-of-government effort.

More broadly, that would be looking to the Department of Justice, and other government departments all have a role to play, but it depends on the entry point.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

In terms of innovation, research and development, I'm wondering if you have a couple of examples. Particularly, in British Columbia there's a lot of concern around waste management and tailings ponds. There have been some bad events there in recent years that people are concerned about.

I'm just wondering if there's been some federal government involvement in partnership with mining companies about perhaps developing new and better ways to handle the waste, which would set a lot of people's concerns at ease. Is that one of the priorities of the government?

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

Mr. Chair, waste management in mining is one of the significant issues. We have done a number of projects out of CanmetMining at Natural Resources Canada. We are also the secretariat to MEND, the mine environment neutral drainage program, which is federal and provincial, with industry effort.

At Natural Resources Canada, we have expertise in acid rock drainage, which is a significant issue related to waste.

Outside of government, I would also reference the Canada Mining Innovation Council. They have been looking at a strategy toward zero waste in mining. This is certainly an industry priority, and government is doing its part at a project level already.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Mr. Harvey, it's over to you.

[TJ Harvey, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

First of all, I would like to thank you all for coming here today. I know everybody has a busy schedule, not least of all you guys, for sure.

I have a couple of quick questions. In your briefing notes, under challenges, you identify that project-by-project focus impedes identification of R and D goals. You specifically mentioned that you felt we would be better off with an industry-wide approach to innovation.

I am wondering if you could elaborate for us on how you think that would look, taking into context that the mining sector in Canada has been recognized worldwide as one of the most innovative and forward-thinking mining sectors anywhere. I am wondering if you could elaborate on how you think that would look.

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

A number of companies and industry reports have indicated that, because of all the risks and the high cost, individual companies can't afford to do the technological development, the de-risking, the demonstration, and the verification all on their own. It really needs to have economies of scale and greater partnership. There are certainly examples, when one looks at the forestry sector or oil and gas, COSIA, of coming together, pooling resources, and helping to reduce risk.

I think that would be a partnership model that the Canada Mining Innovation Council, CEMI, and others are looking at. Could there be a platform that would be governments, universities, industry, as well as suppliers and services that would contribute their efforts together to tackle some of the large challenges? You alluded to a couple, waste water and energy, probably being the focus.