Evidence of meeting #74 for Natural Resources in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was building.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
4:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Corporate Development, Conifex Timber Inc.
We have a little bit of waste heat, but we designed our system knowing that it was going to be power-producing, not power and heat. We have a little bit off the stack, and we're currently doing some due diligence in evaluating if there are some other things. I still love the idea of doing a greenhouse in that community—
4:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Corporate Development, Conifex Timber Inc.
—because we're up in these northern communities, where they're paying atrocious amounts for fruits and vegetables. There are a lot of first nations communities around there that may also be interested. It's not a slam dunk, but it is something we're exploring.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
TJ Harvey Liberal Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Similarly, in the project I was involved with we used a lot of the waste heat to dry the feedstock coming in, of course, just to smooth out, because that plant runs on direct line pressure, the peaks and valleys in terms of moisture content, but also to recoup some of that heat. They're also looking at trying to use the residual heat that's left over, which doesn't have a lot of pressure but has a lot of heat content, to do something like that.
4:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Corporate Development, Conifex Timber Inc.
It's very important that these projects are out there in the public domain, and that people are sharing best practices and information. Certainly, any of the early-stage projects that have received IFIT funding, or NRCan funding, are in the public domain, at least. There's confidentiality around detail areas, but that's something we need to do more of and there's a host of interesting innovative projects. While one size doesn't fit all for location or application, there's a lot we can learn from each other. It's very interesting.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
TJ Harvey Liberal Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
My last question is to all three of you. In your opinion, within the context of your relationship within the sector, what do you feel is the biggest limiting factor in further adoption of increased use of secondary products, whether it's laminated beams or products like this? Where does the biggest opportunity lie?
4:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Corporate Development, Conifex Timber Inc.
I talked a lot.
You start now, Peter. Give me a break.
4:30 p.m.
Manager, National Sustainability, Canadian Wood Council
The product you have to your right is a very high-value product. It's typically made in Europe. It uses chips. It would actually compete with biomass, but produce about a $2,200, $2,300 per metric ton finished product, which is higher than lumber, higher than pulp. Right now it's very expensive. There's no market, really, and that's because it's expensive. It's expensive because it comes from Europe. It comes from Europe because nobody makes it here. Nobody makes it here because there's no market. That's the cycle. It was the same cycle with CLT.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
TJ Harvey Liberal Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Right. It's a vicious cycle.
Just as an offshoot question before I move on, what's the R value of this?
4:30 p.m.
Manager, National Sustainability, Canadian Wood Council
It's about the same as XPS—extruded polystyrene—or Roxul. Depending on the density of that, that's variable.
This is another. It's hemp and wood fibre from Alberta. It has a lower density, higher R value. Really, these products will take hold if there's a market. Sometimes we have to break that spiral, whether it's a spiral of regulation that allows you to generate energy and put it into the grid, or creating a new product for which there is a market demand. That's why some of the projects that NRCan has undertaken, demonstration projects from a structural point of view, have been so valuable, because they say, “Look, it can be done, now go out and do it, and here's the information that offsets your learning costs.” Those are basically going to be market-driven. Who's going to be the first?
I'm going to talk to Sandy afterwards, because if you have residual fibre in Fort St. James, which used to be a Canfor mill—
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
Maybe you can take conversation afterwards offline, but I'm going to have to stop you there.
Mr. Falk, we'll go to you for five minutes, and then over here for five minutes, with Mr. Serré and/or Mr. Tan.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Cobden, I'd like to start with you.
You talked about forest sustainability, and I'd just like your opinion. Based on the current practices by our forestry industry, are you satisfied that we're operating in a sustainable way?
4:35 p.m.
President, Cobden Strategies
I absolutely am, actually.
We have a lot of checks and balances in the Canadian forest management system. I'm not saying we don't need to continue to evolve, and I'm also not saying that we haven't evolved. We have done a tremendous amount of ongoing improvement in how we do forest management.
Just as a proof point, I'd like to point to the third-party certification record of our country, which is by far greater than any other country in the world, and we have no illegal logging practices, etc. I could talk on this for hours—
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
A quicker answer is fine on this next question.
Are we over- or under-regulated or is it just right?
4:35 p.m.
President, Cobden Strategies
We have to keep pace with the changes that are happening. I don't know if I would characterize it as over or under, as much as we need to keep pace. If we're going to be doing all of this transformation, we need to make sure that we keep pace with that so we do not erode the foundation.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Okay, but currently there aren't any regulations that prevent growth in the industry.
Oh, there are. Okay, you've answered that. Thank you.
4:35 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
4:35 p.m.
Vice-President, Corporate Development, Conifex Timber Inc.
You have to compare doing business in the forest products sector in Canada to doing it in other jurisdictions, and it is more highly regulated, there's no doubt about that.
4:35 p.m.
Vice-President, Corporate Development, Conifex Timber Inc.
But we have public crown lands, so we are stewards of the land. Just the very nature of our system means that of course we have some differences.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Ms. Ferguson, I'm glad you've jumped in, because I want to move to talk about you a little bit.
You mentioned 90% of your product is shipped out of country. Is that south or offshore?
4:35 p.m.
Vice-President, Corporate Development, Conifex Timber Inc.
We do about 50% to the U.S., and about 20% to 25% to China, which is varying a little bit because the Chinese market is changing a bit. We do 10% steady to Japan. We do 10% steady in Canada, and then we have less than 5% that goes to different markets. We're doing some work, actually, to develop the Mexican market, and Taiwan and the Philippines are two others.