Evidence of meeting #75 for Natural Resources in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was quebec.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
TJ Harvey Liberal Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Thank you.
Monsieur Lebel, I want to offer the same question to you. You talked about biofuels and the opportunities around biofuels, especially in Quebec. We recognize a huge opportunity there. Through the use of cogeneration and lowering energy costs, are there other ways that companies like Chantiers Chibougamau can increase their competitiveness even with the price point where it is?
4:15 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Quebec Forest Industry Council
I want to champion Chantiers Chibougamau. Like my partner today, they are delivering structures all across America. They're a very good company. They continue to work on research and development to continue to help us. They're in the north. That's not very close, as you said. They're in Chibougamau, which is around 650 kilometres from Montreal. No matter, they're working all across America and they're doing a very good job of that. They will continue to develop this market too.
Bioenergy is very important in the region too, but we are often far from the markets. That's one of our problems. It's very important to have the right infrastructure to export too. Because of Quebec's small population of eight million, we can't get all the market we have. We have to export some of it. That's why ports are very important to develop.
We have to continue to try to promote this. I think we also need a government strategy that recognizes that.
If for transit we accept to pay $400 to $500 to not produce a tonne of GHG, we have to respect the fact that in the forest industry, that will cost a lot less if we use the forest products. I'm not telling you that transit is not important. There are two things we have to do. We compare numbers to not produce GHG. For me it's easier to see that we can have results in the forest industry to help to pay for the rest. That's two different things.
The comparative cost of avoiding the emission of a ton of greenhouse gas to the cost of capturing and storing carbon is a very important question. In my opinion, using forest products while accomplishing necessary public transit projects is a promising solution.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Richard Hébert Liberal Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you.
Good afternoon, Mr. Lebel. It's a pleasure to see you again. It's strange to see you playing a different role.
I know the forest well, as you know since I worked by your side at the Dolbeau-Mistassini city hall.
I'l like you to tell us about the issues related to the wood chips generated by the forest industry.
4:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Quebec Forest Industry Council
Mr. Hébert, I would first like to wish you a long and fruitful career in Ottawa. I am very happy that you are now the person representing the most beautiful riding in Canada, the riding of Lac-Saint-Jean. Now I can say that.
We are talking today about secondary processing, and it is extremely important. Earlier I was highlighting the importance of the first level of processing. We have to remember that in order to get to secondary processing, we first have to have that first processing.
Your question was about wood chips. In the case of softwood lumber, when the wood is cut, the remaining products are extremely important for the value chain of enterprises. Of course, the drop in the consumption of newsprint over the past years has reduced the demand for chips accordingly, and that is why it is important to work on other products. We still produce newsprint and cardboard, which is increasingly used for e-commerce deliveries. However, it is important to find other uses for chips, for instance to produce biomass or other biofuels.
We are not going to change the needs of the clientele. The clients and the market will always decide. However, we can work on enhancing the use of these chips. As you know, this was an important issue, and it still is. It makes it possible to make sawmills profitable.
For our part, we are going to continue to work on developing new products. Canada probably has the best forestry workers in the world. The use of these products will allow us to go further.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
TJ Harvey Liberal Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
I'm going to take the rest of my time back.
Mr. Lebel, you mentioned spruce bud worm. I want to touch on that really quickly. Spruce bud worm in the Eastern Townships, the Lac-Saint-Jean region, and northern New Brunswick is a huge issue right now. I know that in Quebec it's been ongoing for some years. What are your thoughts on that? How do you think the federal government should approach that?
4:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Quebec Forest Industry Council
We already have set up some programs in the past to support the community and the forest industry and the Quebec government to spread the stuff needed to protect the forest, but we have to be ready to do what we have to do. What happened with the pine beetle in British Columbia was that they had to harvest the wood before it lost all its capacity. I think it's important to be ready for that and to have support programs when it happens. For sure, we have to continue to be in front of the problems with some programs and some research, but we have to be ready to do what has to be done. For sure, that has to be done in partnership with the provinces that control the land, the forests that will be the source of the wood. It's very important to be at the front on that because we will have some wood to harvest very soon.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our guests for presenting at committee today.
I want to start off by asking Mr. Lebel some questions.
I would reiterate the comments of my colleagues here. I sure miss you in caucus and I miss sitting behind you in the benches and listening to your wisdom. I know you're always a team player. You emphasize the strength of the team and that we needed to be the team, and I'm sure you're carrying on that perspective in your current role as well.
As we look at team Canada when it comes to the forestry industry, I know you've addressed the whole topic of primary processing in most of your comments there. I'd like to look at some of the opportunities in the secondary processing, which is what the study is about. Whether our forest products are used in building or manufacturing furniture, or paper, or tissue, or cardboard, Mr. Lebel, where do you see opportunities that Canada is missing, where we don't have to ship our raw products outside of the country but for which we should perhaps be investing in opportunities locally to add value to those products right here in Canada?
4:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Quebec Forest Industry Council
Thank you for your comment. It's always an honour to be with you. I will continue to work like a team player. Everywhere in my life, that's important for me. That's my way of living.
We have to understand that Canada is a large country with different realities. As I said before, when I had the honour to be a minister of our country, I went to the Vancouver port and I saw many boats waiting for wood to take to Asia, when we can't send any from Quebec. We have to respect that this is a different reality. I'm very happy that we can export some wood from B.C., Alberta, and Manitoba to Asia. That's very important to continue. However, in Quebec, it's more difficult to export other than to the U.S.A., because of where we are geographically. We have to understand that. We can send some stuff to Europe and we will continue to work with that, but the dimension of the wood is different.... As my friend said, we already have a lot of competition in second transformation in Europe, in Austria, Finland, Germany, and many other countries that are very good.
We have to continue to give education and information to our people, to our guys, to be better and to continue to open the market. We will always have some way to do it. In pallets now we are doing it well in Quebec. We can export more. We will have to continue to transform our work to export into the U.S.A. There are companies like Chantiers Chibougamau and many other companies like Nordic—I'm not talking about hockey, but its name sounds the same as the former hockey team in Quebec—Nordic Structures. It's very good to export, too. We have to continue to transform the wood in building houses and find a different way to do it. We have to transform more. That's for sure.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Thank you very much, and thank you for joining us here today.
Mr. Downing, I have some questions for you as well.
One of the concerns that has been expressed here at committee several times today is the whole issue of wood structures and fire. I think both you and Mr. Lebel addressed that. However, in the actual construction I know there's cost saving and time. For a residential home, do you have any comparisons on what the difference would be between concrete and wood structures?
4:25 p.m.
President, Structurlam Products LP
Are you talking about multi-family? Our single family homes are pretty much exclusively wood, anyway.
4:25 p.m.
President, Structurlam Products LP
Typically, from the mass timber side you'd be talking about multi-family homes. Multi-family homes can now be built up to six storeys in British Columbia, and I think Ontario is looking at that as well. I think they may have passed it. They're what we call “stick frames”. That's the typical two-by-sixes with joists and things like that. That's a very cost-effective way to build, and I think that's a particular market that we own already here, and I think there's a huge opportunity to take more of that market share in the U.S.
Once you go past six storeys, you're in the world of mass timber. There are only a handful of buildings that are taller than six storeys built recently in North America out of wood. There's so much that we need to understand. We need to have a market for it. We need to be able to have the testing done for it on the fire side, which you indicated. Acoustics are a huge problem through the walls or as people walk across the floors. Research studies are ongoing and they are being supported, but then we have to take all that information and we have to commercialize it and convince people to start to use it. These are such early days in the growth curve now on the mass timber side for multi-family homes above six storeys. Any help we can get would be excellent.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
Thank you very much.
Go ahead, Mr. Lefebvre. I think when you have finished, that will bring us to a conclusion.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Paul Lefebvre Liberal Sudbury, ON
Thank you, Chair.
I'd like to continue on Mr. Falk's question with respect to this movement and the support that the federal government can continue for the industry. Maybe you could elaborate on that.
The federal government has done some things in the past, but what can it do to support the mass timber structure industry that you talked about? I think there's a lot of opportunities, as you raised. This is an emerging technology. What can the federal government do to incentivize businesses that want to get into that market? There's this valley, as they're starting off creating this technology and then bringing it to market to make sure it's commercially accessible to the general public. What are your suggestions? This committee will be providing a report to Parliament. What are some of the recommendations you'd like to see?
4:25 p.m.
President, Structurlam Products LP
Obviously, we've talked about the market side of it. That market can be within the buildings that are being actually constructed by the federal government. That's one obvious place where you could help. Generally speaking, I think that Natural Resources Canada, through a group called Canada Wood, does a lot of work in assisting companies marketing their product outside of Canada. That Canada Wood program is very important. One issue I have with it is that it's very focused on lumber. It's all about the market for lumber in China or the market for lumber in Mexico, or wherever it happens to be. What I'd like to see, of course, is more help on the market for our secondary wood products. So that—
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Paul Lefebvre Liberal Sudbury, ON
Sorry, but I have only a little bit of time. That was going to be second question: on the export side, what are the challenges you're facing right now? It is an emerging sector, so what are the challenges you're facing on the export side?
4:30 p.m.
President, Structurlam Products LP
The biggest one is code issues, frankly. All our countries now are looking at whether we can really build these big buildings out of wood. Everybody has the same concerns, especially around fire, and so everybody needs the same help on the building code side. We're so much more advanced in the timber codes here in Canada, North America, and Europe than they are in Asia. The part that Canada Wood is doing over there is on the code side. That's hugely important to continue.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Paul Lefebvre Liberal Sudbury, ON
Perfect. Thank you.
Mr. Lebel, thank you for being here today.
I am from the small town of Kapuskasing, where the Spruce Falls plant of the Tembec company is located. My father was a welder at the pulp mill. My grandfather worked there as a labourer. All of my uncles worked there as well. The company has faced challenges, but it was recently purchased by an American company.
I would like you to tell us about the transformation the Canadian forestry industry is undergoing. Among other things, multinational companies are settling here. Do you see that as an advantage? How do you see the industry developing over the next few years or decades?
4:30 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Quebec Forest Industry Council
Good afternoon, Mr. Lefebvre.
As you know, I had the honour of working with the mayor of Kapuskasing on important forestry sector files. Of course, we can't go back. We have to turn toward the future. Given that Matériaux innovants Rayonier is a chemical products company rather than a forestry enterprise, clearly this will pose some challenges. What will these people do with their sawmills and all the rest? We are not going to make any assumptions about the future, but we are resolutely turned toward the future. We are trying to use the products in different ways. We are focusing on research and development, such as in the area of bioproducts. What is interesting is that there is a future in that. The purchase of the plants by that company will open the door to the products of the future.
Moreover, I'd like to add that most of the fires that broke out in wood homes occurred at the construction phase, for various reasons, and not after the houses were built.