Natural Resources Committee on Feb. 8th, 2018

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Okay.

[Robert Larocque]

—and then use those residues as a subset of diversification.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

In terms of reforestation and afforestation—and maybe this is a question for everyone—it would seem to me this is all pretty well understood and what the value is there. Is there additional work that needs to be done on reforestation techniques to help the forest sector cope with climate change, or do people have their heads wrapped around what needs to be done? As long as the government ensures that all the producers and users participate to the same high standard and meet the goals and meet the best practices of afforestation and reforestation, are we good, or is there more work that needs to be done there?

[Robert Larocque]

I can start, and then I'll let Quebec answer, because I think there are different forest management plans across the country.

You're right that the technology is there; however, we need to change. For example, there's a concept called “assisted migration”, through which we're planting trees from the northern U.S., Washington state, in Vancouver and southern B.C. In some provinces we can't to do that. It would be nice to look at different policies or barriers for planting trees that would be more resilient.

In terms of afforestation and reforestation, where we harvest we're the most regulated in the world and we do the right thing, but we're talking about what happens with a forest fire, a pest infestation, or reforesting seismic lines out in Alberta, for example. That's the kind of support in which B.C. leads the way, with a $27-million program in the last budget or two years ago. That's something that was mentioned in the pan-Canadian framework, but we haven't seen a lot of additional support since 2016.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

In Newfoundland we see the spruce budworm coming, and we know it's a major problem.

[Robert Larocque]

Exactly.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

For the folks in Quebec, do you have any comments on what more the federal government can do to make sure the best forestry practices are used?

[Charles Tardif]

I will jump in.

There is always something. We have been doing research on reforestation now for just about 50 years. That's not a long history of scientific knowledge. I would bring in here the need to know more about the properties of the trees that we are planting. That's something you have to look ahead at for the future, and no genomics have been input. It's improving quite a lot, but we have to go much further to know exactly what to plant and what type of tree that will give us. We need to have a good indication about the quality of the fibre and the strength that future forests will bring to the industry.

I think there's a wide area to continue to work on, to bring more information on those and then identify that the trees we're planting are the good ones for our vision of the future of the industry.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you very much.

I know if Mr. Harvey were here today, he would have added to that. He took a lot of us on a tour of a genomics facility in New Brunswick related to the forestry sector. It's very interesting, and obviously the federal government is keen on supporting that.

In terms of new markets, product testing and trials and testing equipment were mentioned. Is there a role for the federal government to play in standards creation so that when biofuels go to market, as long as they meet particular standards, then people know what they're buying and know that it's going to meet a particular standard, or are we not there yet for wood products? Are we still early in the development stage? Are we at the same level as ethanol yet, or are we still at a lower stage of certainty around these products, and what can we do?

[Robert Larocque]

On building codes, we're on our way. That's a perfect example: continue to work on building codes to have tall wood buildings by 2020, and then all the appropriate standards that go with it. I do support some of my colleagues in Quebec about information sharing and making sure the architects are well aware so that they can build more there.

On the other standards side, yes, we're not there yet on ethanol production. One of the things we are looking at is to make sure that existing standards.... Whether the molecule is based on fossil fuel or based on wood products, it should be the same thing, so don't create additional barriers. There are fears about whether you can double-check, triple-check that it's the same thing? Well, it's the same carbon molecule, except it's not made from oil but from wood. Those are some places that we can work with ISED and other departments to streamline the regulatory certainty a little once we can make those bioproducts. That's from a government perspective.

What we loved about the supercluster.... A perfect example is jet fuels. There are two places in Canada where you can make biodiesel for jet fuel and blend it, but we can't.... There are programs to help us build that diesel technology in our facility, but there's nothing else. If we need $1 million to go and work with WestJet to go through that compatibility testing, there are no programs that we can have for support. The cluster had it; without the cluster, we don't have it.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

I guess I've gone through my time. I could ask questions on this for another eight hours.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Unfortunately, we have to move on.

Mr. Shields, I believe you're up next.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate the witnesses and the information you're sharing with us.

Mr. Tardif, did you make some mention of a labour issue in the sense, I believe, of a shortage of labour?

[Charles Tardif]

Yes, you're right, everywhere we are having difficulty. In fact, in New Brunswick, in different regions of Quebec, and even in the United States we have some difficulty with labour. Everywhere in the regions we have less and less labour available, and we need to attract new people, knowledgeable people to the regions.

That's the reason I was mentioning immigration. In our head office in Lévis, right now we have eight professionals coming from the African continent working with us. We have three in Saint-Pamphile. We have two in New Brunswick. We have Brazilians. They are bringing more knowledge into the regions, and that's where we need it. Immigration is probably part of the solution. It's not an easy one, but at least in our case we see that it is working as part of the solution.

We also see a lot of effort put into the automation process, particularly in the shingle industry, which is, I would say, in the archaic stage of technology. We've now been developing robots, because that's really labour-intensive. We have to go through that channel and have support to be able to create new technology in that sector. It is necessary and would really help us.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

At this point, it's skilled labour you're looking for, and you're replacing the shortage with technology.

[Charles Tardif]

That's it.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Okay, thank you.

Mr. Larocque, you talked about a number of pieces of technology, but one you didn't mention was the wetlands and the technology used. Some of us are familiar with the discovery of new empires because of the use of technology and radar skills, but you've been working with that for some time in the forestry industry to protect the wetlands.

When you talked about environmental aspects, that's a piece you didn't mention.

[Robert Larocque]

Yes, I don't disagree with what you're saying. I only had 10 minutes and I was trying to focus on certain things.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

That's why I'm giving you the chance now.

[Robert Larocque]

I'll be honest with you: my background is on the mill side. I'm not the forest expert at FPAC, but I could get back to you.

What I do know is it's the radar technology and the whole forest. We can really improve. We're not even close to the Scandinavians on that technology. Forest enhancement in terms of inventory, the wetlands, and the absorption of carbon is where we have room to grow in Canada.

That's alI I can answer for now, but if there are additional questions, maybe I can talk to you afterward and get you more information.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I probably know what you could tell me about it. You may not know it, but the advancements you have made in the protection of water and wetlands are incredible in forestry.

[Robert Larocque]

Yes. Thank you very much.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Let's talk about the pine beetle in the sense of natural forest fires. The indigenous people used to burn the mountains down on a regular basis to get lodgepole pines for teepees. They discovered in Yellowstone, after “Let's protect the forest, let's protect the forest, and no fires”, that all of a sudden they had one of the most devastating forest fires the U.S. has ever seen because they didn't burn the underbrush. We're building a firetrap in the forests if we keep all fires from happening.

[Robert Larocque]

That's exactly what I was mentioning about understanding climate change more. There has been some analysis from Natural Resources Canada that forest fires are increasing, and we need to be part of that solution while also respecting biodiversity in our forests.

FireSmart communities are a very good example of forest management protecting communities while still taking care of biodiversity, but we need to learn from the pine beetle and the spruce budworm. We're not learning quickly enough. It's still beating us. The pine beetle now is making its way out west, and the spruce budworm, I appreciate, is beginning in Newfoundland. We need to accelerate it, because if we don't, we're going to have the same problem all across Canada—so yes, you're absolutely right.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

From a supply point of view, if we don't get those two things dealt with and supported, all these other things become irrelevant.