Natural Resources Committee on March 9th, 2020

[Jeff Waring]

Sure. I would be pleased to speak that initiative. The indigenous forestry initiative was renewed in 2017 for $10 million. This was a big shift from its predecessor. This has allowed for much larger-scale investments and partnerships with indigenous communities.

Since then, we have signed and gone into partnership in about 60 different contribution agreements with indigenous communities and other players in this space. These are resulting in significant investments in training and capacity development, which is enabling these forest communities to take better advantage of the forest that's around them and to participate directly in value chains that exist, as well as in the forest sector within their area.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you.

Earlier in the opening of discussion, some of the solutions that forest products could provide as alternatives to single-use plastics were mentioned. This is definitely top of mind in my riding, which has a huge coastal area.

Could you speak a little bit more to some of those opportunities and how there might be some alternatives for those products.

[Beth MacNeil]

I'm told, when I speak to those folks at FPInnovations who are doing research in this area, that you currently have about 30% to 40% forest fibre in a plastic. We issued a challenge, and we haven't announced the winner and the next steps yet; however, I mentioned that there is—and I have it in my office—a 100% biocompostable bottle. We would like to be in a position to support the individuals and the firms behind this in a pilot plant. I would say stay tuned.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

That's great. That's very exciting.

I remember, back in the Beijing Olympics, Coca-Cola coming out with its plant-based bottle. It would be great to see some of the new opportunities that are going to be arising as a result of that.

Given some of the challenges of the forestry sector, I think it is really important that we're looking at some new markets for our forest products. I was hoping you could speak a little more to some of the work that FPInnovations is doing, whether that's finding new ways for wood to be used as a building product or other ways.

[Jeff Waring]

FPInnovations has been a longstanding partner to the industry, to the provinces, as well as to the federal government. They continue to undertake a lot of innovative work on the use of mass timber in construction. This is allowing for the advancement of the National Building Code to be able to build mass timber buildings above six stories. In addition to that, as Beth already mentioned, FPInnovations is doing a lot of work, a lot of research and development around bioplastics, and also biocomposites. This is the ability to take wood products and be able to use them in automobiles, as an example, or in the aviation industry. In addition, they're also doing work around biofuels too, again, using wood fibre as a substitute in fuels.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

You're right on time. Thank you.

Mr. Simard.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. MacNeil, I appreciated your intervention.

To put things in perspective, I come from Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean, one of Quebec's major forest regions, where the Resolute Forest Products plant had to cease operations. By the way, I would like to point out that part of my election campaign was about the forestry industry, as may be evident later.

You said the forestry sector was at a crossroads, and that struck me. If my wife were to tell me that we are at a crossroads, I would be a little afraid, because that would mean that I would have to act fairly quickly.

I don't know if you'll agree with me, but it seems to me that for the last 20 years the government has failed to act on this. There are two major fronts in the forestry industry. First, there are the trade battles that have not been fought by the federal government in recent years. The other major front is research and development.

I've been hearing about celluloid pulp for 15 years. I am told that it is better than sliced bread and that it will eventually replace many components of paint and plastic. But there has never been any significant financial support from the federal government for this industry. I do not know if you will agree with me.

I kept that image in mind during my election campaign. As I was digging, I found that from the early 1970s to the early 2000s there was a collective investment of $70 billion because the technology to make the oil sands profitable did not exist. Yet it was made profitable. I do not want to rub salt in the wound, but Quebec gained nothing from this.

Now, there's a climate crisis we are going to have to face. Several specialists on the issue tell us that the forestry sector is probably one of the best placed.

That was a long preamble and I apologize. So here's my question.

For the past 20 years, federal government support for research and development has fallen short of expectations. Do you agree with me on that? That first question was a long one, forgive me.

[Beth MacNeil]

There's no problem.

I would like to answer the question about federal government investments in the forest sector.

The 2019 budget included a $251-million investment in the forestry sector.

In 2018 in the Speech from the Throne, $100 million was ring-fenced in the federal government's strategic innovation fund for innovation in the forest sector. In 2019 there was also an investment in natural resources and emergency response. We benefited in the forest sector with the investment of $38.5 million in our wildland fire program at Natural Resources Canada.

Those are three key investments made by the federal government and announced in the last 16 to 18 months or so that I believe will support the expansion of markets, the transition to a low-carbon economy, and greater participation of indigenous people in the economic development of their communities as it pertains to forestry.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I take your point, but we may not be reading the situation the same way. Maybe I don't have the same infatuation for these investments as you do.

I was telling you about two areas that bother me: on the one hand, research and development, and on the other, our constant trade wars with the American market.

What strikes me when I go to Europe, especially when I go to France, is all the wooden infrastructures I see. However, it is not the French who have this resource. They are not the producers of wood. When we walk around France, we see infrastructures such as bridges made entirely of laminated and glued wood. We can see many infrastructures, such as government buildings and houses, made entirely of wood.

How is it that in Canada, where we have this resource, we have not been able to develop this culture?

Why is there still a lot of reticence about wood in engineering?

Is there a steel beam or concrete lobby that wants to undermine the wood construction industry?

[Beth MacNeil]

Thank you for your question.

I'll respond with a few facts. First, with regard to infrastructure and building with wood, we did announce a call for proposals last year for innovative wood bridges through our green construction through wood program. The other thing that's very important this year is that Canada will be announcing a change in the National Building Code up to 12 storeys. This will be very significant. With the product and market diversification, particularly the engineered products, we view this as part of the solution to advance Canada's climate change goals, achieving the Paris target, because we know that long-lived wood products help to sequester carbon.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Cannings, you're next. That was probably a good segue for you—

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Do I have time for a brief question?

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Your time is over. Sorry.

Mr. Cannings.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

Thank you for coming here today. Monsieur Simard stole my first question, but I'll try to rephrase it. It's about the innovations in wood products, particularly mass timber and engineered wood.

I was at a forestry summit meeting in British Columbia two Fridays ago. One of the anecdotes was about a Swedish forestry company, Stora Enso, that now has 70% of its revenue coming from products they didn't make 10 years ago. I believe that mass timber innovations make up one of Canada's biggest opportunities for this, not only for the opportunity to store carbon and do good for the climate but also to provide a real domestic market for our forest products that would insulate us from, for example, India's putting tariffs on our paper or the Americans putting tariffs on our lumber.

To follow up on what Monsieur Simard said, I had a private member's bill that asked the government to basically, in so many words, do more government procurement with regard to building with wood. You mentioned wood bridges, but with regard to wood buildings, has that happened? I was told that it was happening with Public Works last year. Can you provide any information on that? These companies—for example, Structurlam in Penticton, B.C., and Kalesnikoff in Castlegar, which is building a huge plant—need that government lead to make their efforts worthwhile. They're already leaders in the field, but they want to stay there.

[Jeff Waring]

I don't have the latest information on what Public Works and Procurement Canada is doing, so I would refer the question to them. However, there are a number of activities under way within the Canadian Forest Service in which we're looking to work with industry and stakeholders to advance wood construction using mass timber. We are also working on education—with architects, engineers, and designers to ensure that they understand the benefits of working with wood in large construction.

In the wood program that Beth mentioned, the green construction through wood program, there have been a number of different calls for proposal and a number of different buildings will be built with the assistance of this program.

Lastly, we've been working with FPInnovations, and just last week they released the Canadian CLT Handbook, the cross-laminated timber handbook. This is a very thick handbook that is a useful tool for builders, designers and engineers, allowing them to recognize the advantages of the engineered wood products and to learn how to use them.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

On the flip side of that, a lot of people in British Columbia are concerned with the export of raw logs. On the coast especially, where there has been a strike and things are difficult, I've been hearing rumours that companies are pressuring the government to relax the restrictions on raw logs. I think the deal is that we'll get more jobs, including some jobs in the woods, but we'll forget about the jobs in mills. I'm just wondering what the federal government's response to that is. I believe the federal government has to provide a permit for the export of raw logs, on top of any provincial permits. I'm wondering if you have policies on that, and if you're considering changing them under pressure from these companies.

[Jeff Waring]

Our colleagues at Global Affairs Canada are responsible for export control of raw logs from Crown lands, so they would be best positioned to respond to that question and to speak to how those efforts are harmonized with practices on provincial lands.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

What about private lands? A lot of Vancouver Island is private.

[Jeff Waring]

My understanding is they would have to come through the federal process, through Global Affairs Canada.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Ms. MacNeil, going back to the two billion trees, you said it would be “incremental” if the program planted trees in areas that had been deforested due to beetle infestations or fire. I go out into the woods a lot. When I go to beetle-impacted areas or forest fire areas, they're covered in little trees that are growing there naturally. To me, that's not incremental. If you're going to count this for our climate action, it has to be incremental to what nature does. I'm just wondering how you would defend that.

[Beth MacNeil]

I would agree with you. The “incremental” is incremental to the existing forest cover through planting the trees, not through natural regeneration.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Right now there is some planting of trees that happens in those situations. I know B.C. is way behind in it, and so those areas get naturally regenerated. Those trees contribute to sequestering carbon, but it's not something that we did.

[Beth MacNeil]

That's correct. The plan is to operationalize the planting of two billion trees. I mentioned the lands and the forested lands that have been destroyed by wildland fire or pests, and those could be a source of land. We're looking for a landmass twice the size of Prince Edward Island. If the regeneration is not adequate, those lands would qualify. I've been working with the chief forester in B.C. to identify what other lands could be there.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you.

Mr. Généreux.