Evidence of meeting #12 for Natural Resources in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Ian London  Executive Director, Canadian Critical Minerals and Materials Alliance
Samantha Espley  President, Canadian Institute of Mining, Metallurgy and Petroleum
Pierre Gratton  President and Chief Executive Officer, Mining Association of Canada
Lisa McDonald  Executive Director, Prospectors and Developers Association of Canada
Jeff Labonté  Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Minerals Sector, Department of Natural Resources
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Hilary Jane Powell
Jeff Killeen  Director, Policy and Programs, Prospectors and Developers Association of Canada
Brendan Marshall  Vice-President, Economic and Northern Affairs, Mining Association of Canada

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Thank you. I appreciate it.

I am going to start with a question for the Department of Natural Resources.

Has the government shown any awareness or interest in whether the production of batteries has an environmental impact, including net emissions for greenhouse gases?

3:30 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Minerals Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Jeff Labonté

Mr. Chair, is it possible that I could ask for a clarification on what types of batteries the member is asking about?

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Yes, absolutely. It's just in regard to electric vehicles, EV batteries.

3:30 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Minerals Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Jeff Labonté

Thank you.

Your question is whether the department has done any analysis about the emissions or the relationship between generating—

3:30 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

I have no interpretation anymore. I think that Mr. Labonté's audio is not loud enough.

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

I think this is the same problem we were experiencing earlier, Mr. Labonté. I think the volume of your voice is having an impact on the interpretation.

3:30 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Minerals Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Jeff Labonté

Indeed. Somebody was trying to correct that while you were working on the motion, but it seems my audio is sketchy.

I'm sorry, Mr. Simard. I don't know whether it is possible to increase the volume. If not, I can ask my colleagues from Natural Resources to answer your questions.

If that is possible, Mr. Chair, would it satisfy the committee? If there is an issue with my volume.... I'm not sure whether it's better or worse at this point.

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

You actually cut out. I couldn't hear parts of what you just said.

I am not having any difficulty hearing you, and when you were speaking French, the translation was fine on my end, so why don't we continue?

3:30 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC

I don't know what's happening, but there is no interpretation at all anymore.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

I'm not getting any interpretation either.

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

I'm not getting any translation from Mr. Simard now.

I am hearing that translation will resume right now.

Why don't we try this again?

Mr. Labonté, try to answer starting from the beginning.

3:30 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Minerals Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Jeff Labonté

Thank you very much.

The department has not completed an assessment as outlined by the particular member, but I would indicate that the nature of developing the battery components for EVs is that there are multiple steps and multiple elements that are built in many parts of different countries.

If you think about the components, they come from Canada, from the United States, from Europe, from China; they come from many places. I am not quite sure that I can answer the question in the way that it's framed and posed, because it's not necessarily the way we examine these particular issues, but I certainly understand the nature of where the interest is.

Looking at the process by which activities such as making batteries or other industrial activities are done, they are regulated from within the Canadian regulatory context. Any industrial activity or facility in the country is regulated for the emissions it produces and the kinds of activities it does. It depends on the nature of what it is and where it's located.

I'm not sure that fully responds, but I have tried my best to answer the question.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

I appreciate that.

Further to that, with regard to the different countries we're importing these materials from, does the Government of Canada charge a carbon tax on products that are shipped in from those other countries, or are we only taxing companies in Canada that are extracting these minerals?

3:35 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Minerals Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Jeff Labonté

I really appreciate that question, but the Department of Natural Resources is not responsible for taxation. We're not responsible, either, for regulating greenhouse gas emissions for industrial activities. That would be the Department of Environment and Climate Change, and the Department of Finance for taxation.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

I appreciate that.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Thanks, Mr. Patzer. I am going to have to stop you there.

Mr. Weiler, we'll go over to you for six minutes.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

That was only two and a half minutes of my time, though. We had a lot of translation issues. That shouldn't count toward my time.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

I don't think you were short-changed there, Mr. Patzer, in the entirety of the scenario.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Well, it definitely wasn't six minutes of questions.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Mr. Weiler, we go over to you.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Thank you.

I'd also like to thank the witnesses for their patience today with the unfortunate vote we had in the House and our committee business. I'm deeply sorry for this. You know, although it has been almost a year, it feels as though it has been decades since pretty much our whole committee was at PDAC in Toronto last year, so it's great to see some familiar faces.

I'm really excited to get started with the study today. It comes at a really important time, because the world economy is transforming in many ways, and there's going to be a huge need for critical minerals to support this transition, and also, countries like China are using their dominance in the market of critical minerals to, for instance, hobble the U.S. defence industry or threaten to do that. As countries are seeking to diversify their sourcing of minerals, I think that presents a great opportunity for Canada, but it is going to be a very competitive environment in which to do that.

My first question is for the Mining Association of Canada. What do you see Canada's competitive advantage being in the critical mineral space?

3:35 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Mining Association of Canada

Pierre Gratton

Well, we have a few obvious ones, and they were, I think, highlighted in my remarks but also in those by NRCan. I think one of our advantages is as leaders in environmental, social and governance issues. When I've been to Europe, back when I was able to go to Europe, and have met with industries there, I have been told that their preference is to source from Canada because they know they can rely on the quality and the rigour of our mining practices. They would rather not have to source from the Congo, for example, or from China, if they can get it from Canada, so that is certainly one advantage.

In many parts of the country, we have an abundance of hydro power, and with your grid connected, you're producing metals that have some of the lowest GHG intensity in the world. Nickel, for example, mined in Sudbury, is some of the lowest-GHG-intensity nickel in the world.

We have, obviously, one of the safest mining industries on the planet. I participate in meetings of the International Council on Mining and Metals. Safety is very important to our industry's culture. They regularly put up annual statistics on fatalities in the mining sector around the world, and Canada never appears on their chart. We just don't rank, which is a good thing. You don't want to be on that list.

We have a highly skilled labour force. We're a very high-tech industry. We're advancing in areas like automation. We're advancing in areas like electrification. So we have many, many advantages, but we also need to be conscious of our challenges, and I flagged one of the really important ones.

Currently some of our metals do come from off-grid mines, and carbon pricing is going to be a challenge for those operations unless we can support those facilities. Specifically, mines like Voisey's Bay in Labrador or the Glencore mine in northern Quebec are off-grid, and yet they are two of the world's most important high-grade nickel mines on the planet, and huge assets for Canada. They also have cobalt as by-products. So we need to think about this. We can't just take it for granted.

The last point I'd make is that, as we all know and as Jeff mentioned in his remarks, this is a vast country and we have everything the world needs. We're not necessarily exploiting it, but we certainly have it. If we can get to it and create the right conditions, we could be in a very, very strong place going forward.

I don't know if my colleague Brendan Marshall might want to add to that, or if, Mr. Chair, that's enough from me and from us.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Thank you, Mr. Gratton.

I'd like to switch to a question for PDAC and Ms. McDonald.

One of the suggestions you mentioned for ways to advance this industry was to invest in public geoscience. I was hoping you could comment a little bit further on that and on where you see opportunities for the best bang for the buck in terms of where these public geoscience studies should be done.

February 19th, 2021 / 3:40 p.m.

Executive Director, Prospectors and Developers Association of Canada

Lisa McDonald

You know, as I think was referenced in a couple of the presentations before mine, Canada is a vast country and our resources are spread out across the country, so it's not possible to sit here and cherry-pick and indicate a particular area. I think that, in and of itself, speaks to some of the challenges and the opportunities that are in front of us.

It is absolutely crucial, if we want to be successful with the critical mineral strategy, that we engage with the provinces and the territories and provide the funding that is necessary for the provinces and territories to do those resource assessments themselves. No one knows better what the opportunities are within their various jurisdictions than the provinces and territories themselves.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Thanks, Mr. Weiler. I'm going to have to stop you there.

Mr. Simard, it's over to you for six minutes, please.