Natural Resources Committee on May 9th, 2022

[Dan McTeague]

That's hardly fair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Mr. McTeague, I'll give you 10 seconds. We'll give you the courtesy of a brief comment, if you'd like, and then I do need to get to Mr. McLean and Ms. Dabrusin for the last 10 minutes.

[Dan McTeague]

Mr. Angus knows I'm a realist. That's why we worked together in the past.

He wants to call this denialism. That's a terrible slur. I'm surprised he's using it, but then that's what you expect from someone who's taking an extreme view on a public policy that's hurting his constituents.

When they're complaining about two dollars a litre and $2.50 in Timmins, I'd remind his constituents for the next couple of days that their member is too busy looking at Twitter feeds rather than getting up and standing up for the people he's supposed to represent.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I'm going to go to Mr. McLean now for five minutes in the final round. Then we'll go to Ms. Dabrusin and that will wrap up our panel.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We'll get back to some real questions and some reality here.

I'll challenge, of course, some facts put on the table by my Green colleague who talked about an existential crisis of our whole species. I don't think that's ever in writing anywhere from anybody that our species is at risk, but if you want to put that on the table, I'd appreciate it, Mr. Morrice.

We're here to decarbonize and look at what we need to do here.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I have a point of order.

Since we're on the conversation of denial, we'll give him the latest statement by UN Secretary-General Guterres that talks about the mass extinction of animals.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Excuse me, Mr. Chair do I have the—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

No, this is—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I know they don't want to hear that, but if he's saying it's not true, we'll put it on the table.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Can I have the floor, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I've stopped the clock, Mr. McLean. It's back to you for four and a half minutes.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you very much.

I'm going to ask some questions of Ms. Johnson. Thank you for coming here today.

Can you tell me about the jobs that are involved in the offshore oil production in Newfoundland, please? Can you tell me how many jobs there are in production and how many there are in exploration?

[Charlene Johnson]

Every exploration well creates about 400 jobs in Newfoundland and Labrador. If a discovery is found, that is thousands of jobs through the capital development phase and thousands through the operations phase.

About 22,000 people in the province are directly and indirectly employed in the sector. That is projected to increase to over 50,000 jobs over the next decade. As somebody mentioned earlier, Bay du Nord was recently approved for environmental assessment. That has the potential for thousands of jobs.

One thing I will note about that project is that it is one of the lowest carbon-intensity projects in Canada—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you. We've heard that, Ms. Johnson.

What I'd like to know about is the labour. That's 50,000 jobs. What percentage of Newfoundland's working population is that?

[Charlene Johnson]

The potential is to get to 50,000. Currently, it's over 21,000. I'd have to verify the number, but I think there's a little over 200,000 working population. That's definitely between 10% to 15%.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

It's the largest contributor to your economy, would you say?

[Charlene Johnson]

It is for sure.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Tell me about the technicality of those jobs, if you could please. How much training goes into the offshore?

[Charlene Johnson]

It's a very highly specialized training to get offshore. A lot of training goes into the basic survival training course. There's continuous ongoing training and safety, and environment is paramount. There are a lot of engineers and years of training and continuous training, but also a lot of technical jobs right on down through the supply chain.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you very much. It's something that's not easily transitioned to filling up electric conduits, if you will.

May I move to Mr. McTeague?

Mr. McTeague, I'll ask you a question about some facts that were put on the table here. Ms. Smith actually said that 126,000 jobs are going to be lost in the energy transition and cleaner energy will result in lower energy bills. Can you tell me how more expensive energy results in lower energy bills, please?

[Dan McTeague]

Well, it doesn't.

Of course, we have to recognize that when we're comparing strictly some renewables such as solar or, in this case, wind, they are not effective unless they are backed up, usually by natural gas, or as I think Ms. Smith has pointed out, by other electrical means. In my province, of course, that would mean nuclear.

I think the issue for many of us, however, is that we are seeing a circumstance where the reality of high-cost renewables is skewing to the upside the costs for ratepayers, not just for the cost of hydro in and of itself, but also—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. McTeague, I have to move here quickly, if you can, please....

Ms. Smith also talked about how electric vehicles were cheaper overall. Can you tell me if that's supportable by the analysis you've seen?

[Dan McTeague]

Not at all. Internal combustion engines are the most efficient ones in 2021 and 2022, and mated with hybrids are probably half the price.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you.

It bears out in the price that these still require significant government subsidies, mostly at the employment level and at the purchase level.

[Dan McTeague]

Right.