Evidence of meeting #32 for Natural Resources in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was energy.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Samantha Smith  Director, Just Transition Centre, International Trade Union Confederation
Judy Wilson  Kukpi7, Union of British Columbia Indian Chiefs
Mike Yorke  Director, Public Affairs and Innovation, Carpenters' District Council of Ontario

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John Aldag

Thanks so much. Your timing is perfect.

We will now go to Judy Wilson from the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs.

If you're ready, Ms. Wilson, we will go to you for your five minutes.

11:25 a.m.

Chief Judy Wilson Kukpi7, Union of British Columbia Indian Chiefs

Good morning. I'm Chief Judy Wilson, secretary-treasurer for the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs, which is more or less half of the first nations in British Columbia. I'm chief of the Neskonlith Indian Band.

Canada's current economy is unjust, and not only because the reliance on oil and gas is fuelling the climate crisis and leaving behind a less safe and less sustainable world. The status quo approach to energy and natural resources in this country has completely ignored our rights as indigenous peoples and the long-term viability of the oil and gas industry.

The economic prosperity promised by the industry is, in most cases, stolen from indigenous peoples' territories without their free, prior and informed consent. After over 150 years of colonization and being confined to tiny remnants of our traditional territories, in most cases we do not have the restitution that we have the right to for the lands, territories and resources that have been taken and damaged without our free, prior and informed consent.

The Government of Canada passed legislation to implement the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Any just transition of the Canadian economy must have the rights outlined in the declaration as a pillar and include the full participation of title and rights holders to avoid replicating the inequities that we currently live with.

In terms of indigenous rights, what is Canada transitioning to? Is it a similar extractive economy, in which indigenous peoples' rights are ignored and ecosystems are destroyed for clean energy rather than oil and gas? In a country whose wealth has been gathered from natural resources stolen from indigenous lands, transitioning to an equitable, safe and sustainable economy represents a deeper level of change than the need for new jobs that don't directly contribute to the climate crisis.

These are tensions that won't be resolved by limiting the just transition discussion to skills training for oil and gas workers. Our rights as indigenous peoples to control the resources and economic activities in our territories have been continually violated, and change at the scale that the committee is discussing needs to be made with the free, prior and informed consent of rights holders.

The implications for this energy transition are wide-reaching and absolutely require a holistic approach. This does not just affect workers in the energy sector; most communities in the country have been forced to be reliant on oil and gas in some way because that's really been the only option supported by generations of successive governments.

Canada has long been a friend to the owners of the oil and gas and continues to embed the wanton use of fossil fuels into public infrastructure and the economy, even in the decades since the UN convened the Framework Convention on Climate Change and clearly identified fossil fuels as the main driver of climate change.

The myth that fossil fuels are a cheap source of energy is coming undone. We are witnessing the costs in our communities and on our lands as climate-driven disasters escalate in their frequency and scale. We desperately need significant investments in radically different ways of living and structuring our society.

For Canada to make good on its climate change commitments and commitments to implement the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, our communities must be involved and adequately resourced to contribute to the transformational struggle.

Those are my remarks. Thank you for the opportunity to present.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John Aldag

Great. Thank you so much for your opening comments.

We'll turn to the Carpenters' District Council of Ontario.

Mr. Yorke, I believe you're going to take the five-minute opening statement. The floor is yours.

11:30 a.m.

Mike Yorke Director, Public Affairs and Innovation, Carpenters' District Council of Ontario

Thank you very much, Chair.

As noted, my name is Mike Yorke, director of public affairs and innovation. With me is Finn Johnson, director of communications.

First of all, thank you very much to the chair and the committee for the opportunity to appear here. I wanted to say that we could have done it virtually as well, but it was obligated on two members of the carpenters' union to appear in this beautiful room in the magnificently restored and revitalized West Block. We're very proud to be here today, in fact, in the rooms that our members had worked on.

I'll give a quick introduction, and then we'll get into what we think is key to a sustainable workforce and green building.

We're a council of trade unions throughout the province of Ontario, and we represent over 30,000 working men and women in all sectors of the economy, in the construction industry and in manufacturing.

Admittedly, there are other provinces, such as Alberta, that are more involved in Canada's just transition and the extraction of the oil and gas, and other unions may have a more direct interest in our energy transformation. That being said, Ontario will still have a huge role in transforming Canadian energy policy, as we're one of the largest consumers of energy in Canada.

In order to achieve a fair and equitable Canadian energy transformation, we believe there is a two-pronged approach: first, rethinking how we produce our energy, and second, addressing the amount of energy we consume and the way in which we do so.

From there, we move on to our sustainable workforce and green building.

On the second point, net-zero targets have to involve Ontario and Canada changing how much energy we do consume. How are we going to make the changes in our construction industry to facilitate this? Individual construction projects involved will vary in scale and size from massive dams and other hydro projects to potentially small retrofitting in individual homes, so to speak.

Added together across the country, the total volume of work will be massive. Given the sheer volume of future work, it can't be assumed that we will have the skilled workforce necessary to do the work that needs to be done, and therefore we need a real plan, with government help and support, to make sure we have the workers we need. We need a well-trained, fairly paid cohort of young Canadians and new immigrants. It's no secret that we're facing a huge shortage in the skilled workforce. This is currently putting a strain on our industry, and it will only become more difficult over the next five years as we see, according to BuildForce Canada, up to 160,000 retirements across the country.

We also need a sustainable workforce. For example, in the city of Toronto where I live, there are many undocumented workers insulating homes for cash. We need to put an end to that underground economy, which impacts and hurts workers. The government's in a real position to make sure this will happen.

A sustainable workforce will have the technology and techniques to be able to build a more energy-efficient Ontario. Mass timber, for instance, involves using timber more prevalently in major construction projects, as opposed to other non-renewable building materials. Building with mass timber will not only support immediate areas where the infrastructure is being built, but also communities across Canada that harvest and manufacture timber products. With our abundance of resources and innovation, Canada has an opportunity to be a world leader in this technology, and we call that a symbiotic relationship between the urban centres and the resource-based communities and indigenous communities across our country. We can really be a leader in that, and that opportunity exists before us.

Federal funding needs to be targeted to achieve a fair and equitable Canadian energy transformation. We need requirements on sustainability and training for future infrastructure projects to ensure that we are supporting green building, in addition to the future generation of a Canadian skilled trades workforce.

I want the committee to be aware that we are an interested partner in that. I speak not just for carpenters. If I look at the industry, I see that the partnership and the potential collaboration is huge. Recently, one of our better-known architects in the country, Don Schmitt of Diamond Schmitt Architects, wrote an editorial pointing out that industry and architecture and construction cannot wait on regulators to make a green economy. Right there, that's a solid position from the industry recognizing that we can play a leadership role.

With the committee's work and the work of the government, we can be real collaborators in terms of the transformation to a green economy.

With that, thank you very much. We look forward to an opportunity for dialogue and questions.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John Aldag

Thank you so much to each of our witnesses for their opening statements.

Now we're going to go into our first round of questions, and these are six minutes each. First up we have Mr. Bragdon.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Richard Bragdon Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To the witnesses, thank you for your testimony today. We really appreciate your taking the time to share your valuable insights with us as a committee.

At this time, Mr. Chair, I would also like to move a motion. It does pertain to the nature of the business.

That motion is as follows:

That, before moving to finish the study “Creating a Fair and Equitable Canadian Energy Transformation” the committee invite as witnesses: the Government of Saskatchewan, the Government of Alberta, and the Government of New Brunswick.

I have also received, Mr. Chair, in relation to this, a letter from the Premier of New Brunswick—

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, I have been flagging you to add me to the list. Can you confirm that I'm on the list after Mr. Bragdon has made his motion?

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John Aldag

Well, at this point we're into the rounds of questions.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

No, we're not. He's moved a motion.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John Aldag

I gave him the floor for his six minutes of questions and the clock is running. I've stopped the clock right now, and he has four minutes and 55 seconds left.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. Maybe the clerk can advise you, but he's moved a motion, which means we're out of rounds of questions and into debate on the motion. That's why I'm seeking the speaking list.

11:35 a.m.

A voice

Sorry, Chair—

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Maybe the clerk can advise you on how the rules work.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John Aldag

Okay. My apologies—

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

You've got me on the list to speak to the motion?

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John Aldag

I've stopped the clock. I'll have to see the speaking order—

11:35 a.m.

A voice

[Inaudible—Editor]

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

No, you weren't up before me.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON

Yes, I was.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

That's a lie and you know it, and you're better than that, Francesco.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John Aldag

He was trying to get my....

Continue with your motion. Then—

11:35 a.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Sorry. I have a point of order—

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John Aldag

I am going to rule that this is in order, because it does relate to this existing study. We'll hear the motion and we'll have the debate on it, and then we'll dispense with it.

11:35 a.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

I just wanted to raise a point of order here—

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John Aldag

Charlie, it's—