Natural Resources Committee on Nov. 17th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Great. Thank you for that.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Chair, that satisfies my question.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Okay. Carry on.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I was particularly interested in what the source was. I think Ms. Buist has provided that. Thank you very much.

I appreciate all of the work that our federal civil servants do, and how you contribute to our local communities and the economy. I think it's vitally important, and I thank you for it.

Ms. Buist, as you responded, I'd like to ask you a few questions on your testimony.

You used the word “invest” a lot, as well as “foundational investments”. My question would be whether these investments mean that, as a department and an agency, you also take an equity position in some of the companies that you invest in.

[Margaret Buist]

No, we do not take an equity position. We provide funding, and it depends on our various programs. Each of us has some national programs, and we also have some very agency-specific programs. They are grants, they are contributions, and we have repayable loans and, in some cases, non-repayable loans. I can only speak for CanNor in saying that we don't take equity positions in the projects that we fund.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

My next question is on the repayable loans you issue to different communities, organizations or small businesses. What percentage of repayment do you experience as an organization?

Do you have significant loan losses? That would be another question.

[Margaret Buist]

Each of us is different, and I can only speak for CanNor. It was just within the last couple of years that we began to do repayables, so we don't have a long history of doing that or a long set of statistics on the repayables. It might be better if one of my colleagues who has much more experience with repayable loan funding answered your question.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Okay, thank you for that.

You mentioned that you invested $1.2 million in a geothermal study. To me, geothermal is a proven technology and concept, and I'm wondering why we're still studying the issue. Was it an application-specific study? If we're going to make an investment, why wouldn't we just invest in the project itself as opposed to a study?

[Margaret Buist]

That particular project is taking place in Nunavut with the Quilliq Energy Corporation. It is a new type of energy generation potential in Nunavut. Nunavut is now 100% powered by diesel, and this is an Inuit regional corporation that is looking at the possibility of introducing geothermal in the geography in Nunavut, which is pretty much all rock, so they're looking at whether it's possible to do it. There are lots of different considerations that go into this type of project in the northern environment and—

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to move over to FedNor for a minute.

You talked about the Ring of Fire. I met with the Mining Association of Canada this past week, and they talked a little bit about the approval process. Can you speak specifically to Bill C-69? Has that increased or decreased the speed at which approvals can be granted to small and medium-sized prospectors and miners?

[Lucie Perreault]

I can't particularly speak to Bill C-69. I'm sorry; it would be a different department.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

You don't know whether that has hindered the process for mining approvals.

[Lucie Perreault]

No, I don't know if it's hindered the process for mining approvals. I know there's been a lot of work and effort towards improving what we're doing around those, but I don't have the specific information to be able to respond to that question directly.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We're out of time on that one, so we're going to move next to Ms. Lapointe, who will have six minutes.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I'll be directing my questions to FedNor.

Good morning, Ms. Perreault. It's a pleasure to see you here today.

Before I ask my question, I want to share an observation. I had the opportunity to attend the PDAC convention this year, and I spent a lot of my time in the northern Ontario mining showcase. I talked to a lot of exhibitors, and a lot of them said that they would not be able to participate in PDAC if it weren't for FedNor's showcase pavilion and their subsidy of the exhibitor fees. I'm thinking of some of those small businesses, entrepreneurs and organizations like Collège Boréal that all expressed their appreciation for that, so I want to acknowledge that very important work. It's also the largest pavilion at PDAC, which in and of itself attracts 10,000 delegates, so it's quite an accomplishment.

At this committee, we often hear about the importance of capitalizing on the economic opportunities that are presented from the energy transition, and one of these opportunities is the development of critical minerals.

Can you tell us how FedNor has supported the sustainable development of this sector and its downstream uses?

[Lucie Perreault]

FedNor has supported the development of regional innovation ecosystems for decades. In northern Ontario, sustainable mining activities are supported through strong supply and surfaces sectors that bring forward new and innovative products and technologies that will help mining or forestry companies improve productivity and efficiency while managing the environmental and social risks.

This is achieved through strategic investments in research or commercialization in areas such as underground mining technologies and the establishment of clean technology test centres in partnership with the private sector. Examples of that are the investment in NORCAT's underground mining technology, investments in Cambrian College and the testing of electric vehicle batteries and recycling, or investment in Northern College's innovation hub, where they're also using that information to help with innovative technologies.

Also, we've recently invested $5 million for electric batteries with First Cobalt—if I can recall the name correctly—in order for them to support the development of cobalt. I guess it's processing of cobalt in that region that is used in critical minerals.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you.

Yesterday we learned that Canada was ranked number two in Bloomberg's battery supply chain ranking. That was great news for Canada.

Can you tell us how FedNor has supported advancements in the zero-emission vehicles or electric vehicle battery production?

[Lucie Perreault]

We support, as I mentioned, the ecosystem that surrounds that—not necessarily supporting the businesses in the development or the larger mining corporations. We don't do that, but we do support the ecosystem and the mining supply chain, in particular with post-secondary institutions and our innovation centres that would help support testing, commercialization and indirect linkages with the businesses that can come to try out their products to make sure that they work. If we're talking about NORCAT, it's an underground mining testing facility where the businesses can come to use a live, operating mine to be able to test their products.

On the other side, we've also supported an organization, Centre for Excellence in Mining Innovation, CEMI. From their history, they've developed into an organization that's quite substantive. More recently, they were able to obtain federal funding from the strategic investment fund to be able to develop what they call MICA, which is an innovation program specific to supporting businesses with clean technology investments in mining. They've just launched their first round of applications. They've leveraged, I think, up to a $140 million with the private sector, federal and provincial governments in that initiative.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

My next question will be directed to FedNor as well as to the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency.

Our government supports a strong resource development sector that is sustainable, creates economic opportunity for indigenous peoples, advances reconciliation and respects the environment.

Can you tell us how your agencies are working to advance reconciliation in the resource sector? Can you provide examples of some of these investments?

[Lucie Perreault]

We work closely with all our stakeholders, but, in particular, with first nation communities we have on-the-ground officers who work in each of the regions and take the time in order to be able to consult and work on different projects and support in that way.

If we're talking mining, I can say that there are two specific examples with indigenous businesses, Z'gamok on Manitoulin Island and Matachewan First Nation Limited Partnership. We've supported those businesses to purchase specialized equipment that enables them to then develop an IBA with the mine, like in the case of Matachewan with Kirkland Lake Gold, in order for them to be able to train indigenous youth in their first nations and be able to work within that mine in doing that. Those are two really good examples.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you, Lucie.

Will the chair allow—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Unfortunately, we are out of time. We won't be able to hear from ACOA. Perhaps somebody else can pick that up when it gets to them.

We will now go to Monsieur Simard for six minutes.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Charlebois, I am interested in the process that led to the purchase of the Trans Mountain pipeline. That process had to look at the viability of the project and the responsibility for the costs, and had to require the government to seek advice.

I can't believe that the Canada Energy Regulator never gave advice to the government before it made its decision. To your knowledge, was any advice or guidance given by the CER?

May I please ask you to respond briefly.

[Jean-Denis Charlebois]

No, there was not. We are a regulatory body—