Official Languages Committee on Dec. 5th, 2006

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you for being here today and for your warm welcome.

It is important for the committee to work hard to find some solutions. I am on the government side, and I am here to hear ideas, to understand and to possibly improve things in the area of official languages.

We are talking about challenges and we have talked a great deal about challenges. We have been hearing about them everywhere. Since I am basically an optimist, I would like to know what your greatest achievement has been in your area. Moreover, if you have any ideas to suggest to the government on how to solve the problems you have, what particularly would you like us to concentrate on more?

I will start with Mr. Michaud.

[Donald Michaud, General Director, Réseau santé albertain]

Coming from the education sector, I can tell you that we hit a home run by establishing and maintaining our right to manage our own schools for francophones. That is a pillar for our development. Obviously, that means creating spaces, but we are all aware of how much education contributes to psychological development, strong families, and so on. So that is a huge achievement.

I think that the francophone student population in Alberta has doubled over the past 12 years, and that is a relatively short time. I can talk to you about challenges, but that is certainly a great achievement.

I have the impression that if we can transpose that approach to other areas, such as health care, if we can better deploy those services, it will already be an important step forward. We do not need to create a whole new structure, but rather build on what already exists and use it to best advantage. This might be an incremental approach, but at least it would be progress.

What I mean by that is coordinating francophone services as their own “regional” health board where all these people can be accessed and a formal network created. Then it would be possible to effectively provide real service to the population. That is my opinion in 30 seconds.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

And Mr. Johnson?

[Jean Johnson]

I really want to give you a concrete example of an agreement that specifically accommodated the francophone community. This was the agreement on early childhood services.

I know that the current federal government has taken a different position. However, the agreement enabled us to start negotiating things with the province of Alberta right away. The provincial representatives sat down and tried to find ways to develop concrete services. The only reason that we can negotiate with Ms. Forsyth's department—there may be a new minister under the new government—is because we are negotiating two agreements for the greater Calgary and Edmonton regions, but also an umbrella agreement .

In terms of success, when you insert a clause that accommodates francophones in Alberta, you give us the tools we need to continue to develop. That is just one example.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

If you had an idea to pass along to the current government to improve things, what would it be?

[Jean Johnson]

As I have said, it would be to develop the reflex to always insert and include such clauses. We are not shy: we would be happy to sit down and discuss these issues with the departments.

We do not want to complicate your process, but we certainly want to tell you that we are here and that we have the same interests. We want to contribute to the development of all Canadian citizens and promote our two official languages. We do this with respect and also with pride.

We can be allies for both the federal and provincial governments. That is the tack we take, especially when we meet with the provincial departments, except that we do not have much weight when we do not have the ear of the federal government.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Thank you.

Ms. Brunelle.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I was thinking about this. Earlier, Mr. Godin said that the Act is what it is and you, Mr. Arnal, said that there are no provisions for accountability. That reminded me, for example, of when I was working in the area of the status of women. We were trying to obtain a gender analysis in order to measure equality between men and women within government. Because that analysis had not yet been done, we had very little recourse, very few means to condemn certain situations and to advance the cause of women.

You have a complaints process. We have had an opportunity in Quebec, with the French Language Charter, to experience the limits of the complaints process. We know that without more punitive measures in place, it is difficult to move forward.

I was wondering if there are any provisions for accountability that we should be considering. Have you thought about how we could truly make things happen? It seems to me that as long as we continue to depend on good faith or complaints, we will be severely restricted in what we can do.

[Marc Arnal]

The problem with a complaints process is that it puts us in the position of being complainers. We have been complaining for hundreds of years. We are tired of complaining and we want to start building. I have nothing against a complaints process but that is not a solution in itself. I think that we have to allow for—and that may involve proactive measures—the community working together with the public service and creating models.

I was visiting my aunt in Saint-Pierre a few days ago. There was a French services centre in the village, that is also home to three levels of government. My 89-year-old aunt told me how nice it is to be able to go there and speak French, to not have to worry about whether one will be spoken to in French or in English. That may not strike you has being very significant but imagine how it feels to an 89-year-old woman who has lived her whole life in Manitoba where French was not considered to be a legitimate language. That only changed in 1957.

Approaching the government in French constitutes a huge challenge. I think we need to recognize the psychological circumstances in which our communities are linving and, unfortunately, I think that the complaints process only reinforces what we are trying to get rid of. We are in a position to build the country and we are constantly being told that if something does not work we just need to complain. That is not what we want to do. We want to be leaders and we want to build, we don't want to whine.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

You stated that the way we perceive ourselves ends up determining our personality. I understand why it is important to perceive oneself in a positive light and as a builder. Thats brings me back to the topic of francophone athletes competing in the Olympic Games. There was criticism from some athletes from Quebec. I will not go into this at great length, Mr. Vice-Chair, but one can see that there is segregation, there are problems. Do you experience situations where you feel discriminated against because you are francophones? Do you still feel that, or is it not as evident anymore?

[Luc Therrien, Director General, Réseau santé albertain]

The way we experience discrimination is that we are not considered to be citizens who speak one of the two official languages. We are perceived as being one of twelve ethno-linguistic cultural communities in the province. That is the type of discrimination we experience and that is why it is difficult for us to move the French health file ahead.

[Marc Arnal]

My spouse is from the Punjab, in India. I thought I knew what discrimination was, but allow me to tell you that I have been doing some learning in that area. Compared to what she has experienced and to what she is experiencing, I am sorry, but I do not consider myself to be a victim of discrimination at all.

[Dr. Denis Vincent]

We are Albertans, we have grown up and lived in Alberta, and we are full-fledged Albertans. I think that in the eyes of other Albertans, as long as we are part of a collective effort, there are no problems nor is there any discrimination. They are very proud to see the work that we do as Albertans. What they do not acknowledge is that there is another dimension to our lives, a francophone dimension. That is something that the majority does not often understand. It is not as if they were preventing us from filling certain positions, it is not that kind of discrimination. We are a minority that is to a great extent invisible. I am not rejecting English, I speak English like an Anglophone, and they themselves would not be able to tell whether I was Franco-Albertan or not. Their problem is in acknowledging that we have another personal, collective and community life that they are not familiar with. It is somewhat of a challenge for them to understand that we want to create a francophone space for ourselves.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

I know that we wanted our work to include the discussion on immigration. Here in Alberta, there is a different kind of immigration, that kind of immigration that is taking place within Canada. I understand that many francophones from our province come here. I was pleased to learn that, if they go back home in 25 years, you don't want them to have lost their French. I hope they come back before 25 years go by.

What kind of services are offered to these people?

We were talking about Edmonton and Calgary but there is also Fort McMurray. I am just giving you one example. Last year, in my region, in one week alone, in a small community called Loggieville that only has about 500 or 600 inhabitants, 70 people left for Fort McMurray. Those 70 individuals include some people who live in what are called camps and go back home every three months. You can see many houses for sale where I come from. So there are people who are moving. Therefore, there is a francophone population that is coming here to Alberta. I am sure that there also people coming here from the Gaspésie.

In fact, the Gaspésie is experiencing the same phenomenon as we are. The federal government made some very significant cuts in employment insurance. They took $50 billion away from workers. Now these people are saying that if this government does not want to help them then they might have to move. That has destroyed a whole community, the regional economy, and so on. I seem to be sending a national message.

You are the ones receiving these people and there are still more to come than you can image. I had to fight the government at one point in time because they wanted to bring in immigrants from other countries when 400 people with varying skills in New Brunswick were available to go to Alberta. In fact, the government was willing to bring in immigrants from other countries rather than use the services of Canadian men and women. I wanted to tell you this to start a dialogue. That way you know where I am coming from.

A little earlier you mentioned that you did not want to provide services solely in the larger centres but elsewhere as well. However, you will see that there are people who are going to want to live elsewhere. How do you intend on providing them with the services?

[Jean Johnson]

First, we view this migration towards Alberta as a huge responsibility that the francophone community has been in entrusted with. That huge responsibility lies in being very fair in our reception and integration of these people. However, there are problems emerging: these people are arriving without us noticing them. Once they have landed, they disappear into the mist. In Alberta, these people will make the other official language of Canada their own, because the environment fosters that.

In answer to your question about the services that we offer, I will give you an example. Reception and settlement services are offered in Edmonton and in Calgary. Those services are specialized in that area, but are funded by CIC. Those services are for individuals who have recently arrived from other countries. Yet, we need those reception and settlement services for francophones coming from other parts of the country.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

That is what I was trying to get at, Mr. Johnson. We have these reception services but when people from our part of the country come to Alberta, and the husband has to live in a camp that he can only leave on weekends, he doesn't know where to house his wife and children. Should he be putting them in an apartment in Fort McMurray, when they can't speak any English? There are many cases like that one involving people who have come from our region to this province. There are many other people who would like to come to Alberta but they don't speak English and they don't know who to approach in Alberta to get a job.

Furthermore, the Government of Alberta is promoting jobs and inviting people to come. I don't have a problem with people going voluntarily. However, what kind of services exist to receive these people?

[Jean Johnson]

Our challenge lies precisely in meeting that need. I could talk about another institution—

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Fine, but what do you propose?

[Jean Johnson]

We propose working with the federal government and the Government of Alberta in order to find strategies focused on developing small rural communities such as Plamondon, which is only a two-hour drive from Fort McMurray. That is just one example of a nice community that could grow and could receive a whole new francophone community, and where there are educational services, a school. That would be a nice host community.

I think that would represent a great opportunity to build a rural community and meet the needs of people working two hours away in Fort McMurray. That is one example.

What kind of services would we like to offer? We would like to have the means to develop more services, because the number of consumers of francophone services is increasing at a rate we cannot keep up with. If you are interested in working on a plan, we, for our part, would be interested in providing you with the kind of initiatives we would like to be able to develop.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Thank you very much. My five minutes are up and I would not want to abuse my authority as chairman.

Mr. Vincent, you will have the floor on the next round.

Mr. Simard.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The Liberal Party has an official languages caucus which I chair. Our own two priorities have been raised here, this morning.

First, whenever the federal government signs an agreement with provincial governments, an envelope specifically dedicated to minority communities should be established. Without that, we are entirely dependent on the good will of the provinces. We know perfectly well that some provinces are less receptive than others. I would like you to give me your perspective on this.

The francophone envelope for early childhood did have a certain amount of flexibility but that did not last for long. We are often behind, compared to other communities. We need, among other things, daycares. We should be allowed a certain amount of flexibility in order to make up that lag.

In terms of infrastructure, there should be a fund for francophone communities. I'm thinking of, for example, the Saint-Thomas Health Centre, or, where I come from, the Théâtre du Cercle Molière. The federal and provincial governments often invest a million dollars each and then they ask the community to find two or three million more. We represent 4% of the population and we have 20 projects. It's practically impossible to find those funds. In other words, it almost never happens and when it does, it takes 10 years.

What do you think about these two proposals? We could include them in our report and ask the federal government to follow through up on them.

[Jean Johnson]

I support that. Our greatest challenge involves infrastructure. We're sent from one department to another and all we get in return is frustration.

You said that it takes 10 years to complete a project, but sometimes it's more. We face significant challenges. I absolutely support what you say. Once again, it boils down to the federal government having the responsibility to work directly with the provinces to support the development of these communities.

[Joël Lavoie]

We're talking about positive measures and I think that should automatically include provisions for anything that affects communities.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

That would be consistent with Bill S-3.