Official Languages Committee on June 13th, 2013

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

No.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Does it get renegotiated?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

No, it does not. In fact there is an escalator clause in the agreement for the federal transfers for settlement services in Quebec that can never go down, but always goes up. Consequently, I think when the agreement started they were at about $90 million circa 1991, and they're now at over a quarter of a billion dollars. Notionally, the Government of Quebec has the responsibility to report on how those funds are spent, but in practice there's very little information that's furnished.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Do we have no muscle in order to enforce that?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I actually intend, Mr. Galipeau, to write the minister, my counterpart in Quebec, shortly to raise some concerns that we have around some of these issues.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Chisu.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you very much, Minister, for your great presentation. I appreciated it very much.

Actually, more than your presentation, I appreciate what you are doing for the immigration system in Canada. Why am I telling you this? In 1976, the year that I decided to immigrate to Canada, I didn't have any information and the consular officer at immigration told me, “You go to Toronto,” but I wanted to go to Calgary or Edmonton. Anyway, here I am, so thank you.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

One thing that is very important is the combination of the immigrants and the jobs that you are proposing and promoting. This is a very important thing, because an immigrant is coming from outside Canada and they cannot come to Canada after someone tells them, “Oh, you'll find a job”. You are doing a service for the immigrant and also for Canadians. You are dealing with an issue and turning it into a win-win situation for both. You are applying the skills the immigrant has in areas where they're necessary in Canada.

You also were mentioning in your presentation that the provincial nominee program increased by 500%. How does this benefit the immigrants recruited by the provinces? They will stay in the provinces, but this means that they will also be served in the minority language communities. It is very important that they are not using the immigration system and then going to Toronto or somewhere else. That is happening. I can tell you that a lot of people from the Romanian community used the Quebec immigration system to come here after being all over the place and then they ended up in Toronto.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

The answer is that retention of immigrants who are nominated by provinces in their provincial nominee programs is pretty good. It's very high in the west. It's over 95% in Alberta. It's lower in Atlantic Canada, where it's more in the range of 65% to 80%, depending on the eastern province. Those provinces are working on strategies to do a better job of retaining those immigrants.

In the short term we're seeing better economic outcomes for immigrants selected through the provincial nominee programs because many of them are actually selected by employers. The employer sees someone whose skills they need. They can't find those skills in the Canadian labour market, so they nominate someone from abroad who they've identified, who maybe is already working in Canada on a work permit, which very frequently happens, and then that person gets permanent residency. We are finding in the short term very strong incomes among those provincial nominees, again because of the pre-arranged employment factor for most of them.

However, I add a caveat. In the longer term, the federal skilled worker point grid immigrants overtake them in terms of income. The federal skilled workers have lower incomes in the short term, but higher in the long run, because typically you're talking about the federal skilled workers being better educated and they have what we call more flexible human capital. They might come and work as a cab driver, as our colleague Devinder Shory did for the first two or three years he was here. When their degree gets recognized, they move up into a professional category. Whereas your typical provincial nominee would be a skilled tradesperson who maybe has a very good job as a carpenter in Manitoba earning $60,000. They're doing well, but they don't have the same growth in income in the long term.

Anyway the provincial nominee program is working pretty well. Some of the problems were it got a bit loose on the criteria and started getting into extended family reunification. We had a gong show in Saskatchewan where one Pakistani family had nominated 29 people under their extended family reunification program, many of whom couldn't speak any English. We've worked with the provinces to shut down some of those abusive streams and to focus much more on their economic needs.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

My second question is a very short question.

We have these immigrants coming to Canada and they are proficient in one of the official languages. How are we making them speak both official languages? What can we do to make them proficient in both official languages? Our goal is to have a fully bilingual country.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Yes.

First of all, in the points grid for the federal skilled workers, if they have proficiency in both English and French, they get bonus points, which gets them closer to being selected.

Second, as I mentioned, we are offering services, including free language classes, in both official languages all across the country. Yes, in an ideal utopian world, they would all have proficiency in both English and French, but let me be honest: many immigrants are struggling to master their first Canadian official language. I'm not going to criticize them for focusing on the local dominant language. I'm not going to criticize a Chinese immigrant in Vancouver for taking English language lessons. Chances are they might send their kids to French immersion, and maybe later in life they'll make an effort to learn French. We encourage them to do that and the services are there, but mastering one official language is the most important thing for their economic success in Canada.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much.

Monsieur Dionne Labelle.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good day ladies and gentlemen.

I must admit I am somewhat surprised, today, to hear the minister's comments. I came to this meeting expecting to hear about the Immigration Department's record and I have heard very harsh comments regarding Quebec. I am wondering if the Conservative government is questioning the immigration agreement with Quebec.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

No.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Is that clear?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Yes, that is clear.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

We seek transparency. It is not too much to ask.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

You know full well that is a word that has become a cliché.

Last year, out of 200,000 immigrants, you were pleased to have reached the 1.8% target. Is that correct?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

That would be for francophone immigrants outside Quebec.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Yes, that is right.

I was looking at the decline in the mother tongue population of New Brunswick. Two per cent out of 200,000, representing approximately 3,600 people. Is that the case?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

You are referring to New Brunswick?

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Two per cent of 200,000 is equivalent to approximately 3,600 people.