Official Languages Committee on May 7th, 2018

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Okay.

I would like to come back to the test designed in Paris. More and more people are asking that this test be written in Canada. From what the minister said, there is a bidding process under way in that regard.

[David Manicom]

Yes.

The tests that we are using are not used only for immigration. These tests are designed by large international corporations that design language tests for various purposes, for example, university admissions.

We have been looking for a Canadian company to design these tests for a long time. We have language tests in Canada, but we need a language test for this specific purpose that can be administered anywhere in the world. In the past, no company, except the Paris chamber of commerce, was prepared to offer that service throughout the world in order to meet our needs.

The department is finalizing negotiations with a Canadian company to do that work. I was told that the contract would take effect sometime between now and the fall and that the necessary changes will be made to our electronic system.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Will your department ensure that the French test costs the same as the English test and that it will not cost more to take the test in French?

[David Manicom]

There is every reason to believe that it will cost about the same to take the test in French or English in Canada. Internationally, it is very complex because the price varies from one country to another. Naturally, there is a bigger demand worldwide for English tests.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Okay.

[David Manicom]

That being said, there will be a significant improvement. The test will be designed in Canada.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Mr. Samson, you have the floor.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your presentation and the information you provided.

I would first like to commend you, and it isn't every day that I congratulate someone for the work they do for minorities. At least you paid attention to the situation last year. As you know, members of this committee are very frustrated with the unacceptable lack of success we have been seeing over the years. Major changes were needed. We see that such changes are being made and that is good.

I want to come back to my friend Mr. Choquette's question about the lottery. I will tell you a quick story and then I will share with you the solution that I would like you to incorporate into your strategy.

Thirty years ago, when I began teaching, I was teaching in an anglophone community. Four of my students were Acadians who did not know how to speak French. Since they were learning French with me, I encouraged them to apply for a scholarship to take French classes over the summer. All four submitted an application, but none of them were chosen. Since Nova Scotia's population is 96% anglophone and only 4% francophone, the probability of an anglophone being chosen was huge. These assimilated francophones did not receive a scholarship to learn French, but anglophones were given the resources to do so. We therefore established two programs.

I am not saying that you should do the same. However, we have a francophone immigration target of 4.4%. I would suggest that, once 80% of the names are drawn at random, you stop the process and determine how many francophones have been chosen at that point. If it is 2.4%, then there is still 2% missing. In that case, the next names that are drawn could be drawn only from the pool of francophones in order to fill that missing 2% or until a minimum of 4.4% is reached. Then the process could resume as usual and the remaining 8,% 10% or 12% of names could be drawn at random. That way, you would still be holding a lottery but it would be in keeping with the francophone immigration target of 4.4%. That is my suggestion, and I hope it will be implemented as of tomorrow morning.

There is another important issue that I talked about with the minister earlier today and over the past few days. The government has invested funds in order to bring francophone immigrants to minority communities. It is done for and by one group in the province. It varies from one province to another. Some provinces are doing better than others. Things are going fairly well in Nova Scotia, even though the success rate is not the greatest. Investments are being made in welcoming immigrants and helping them to integrate, but funding for employment is not getting to the right organizations. At least that is what is happening in Nova Scotia. I can't speak for the other provinces. I am talking here about the Conseil de développement économique de la Nouvelle-Écosse, or CDENE, in my province and the Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité, or RDEE, in francophone communities in other provinces. Since these organizations specialize in employability, they are the ones that should be receiving the funding for employment. I agree with the choice of organizations for other aspects of integration, but these are the organizations that should be given funding to help immigrants find jobs. They have asked for money to create such a position, but they have not yet managed to secure it. We would like them to be given funding for that.

My last question has to do with annex agreements, which I love. You have already met with departmental representatives from across Canada. Annex agreements were developed for New Brunswick and Ontario. Do you intend to talk to the ministers in the other provinces to develop annex agreements?

Thank you.

[David Manicom]

Thank you, Mr. Samson.

I heard your recommendations, but I am not sure whether you had questions about the first two issues you mentioned.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

My question is simple. Do you agree with me? If so, the answer is simple.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[David Manicom]

My answer to the first question is no, but my answers to the second and third questions are both yes.

With regard to the third question about whether we communicate regularly with the representatives from the other provinces and encourage them to follow the examples of Ontario and New Brunswick, the answer is yes, absolutely. That is what Joël Denis, who is here with us today, does on a daily basis.

With regard to your second question, the money that we are investing in the integration programs offered by and for francophones will really be directed toward partnerships. The idea is that the money will be used to broaden the scope of those programs in co-operation with the type of organizations—

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Don't forget that in Nova Scotia, it's the CDENE, while in all the other provinces, it's the RDEE.

[David Manicom]

Yes.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

There is no RDEE in my province of Nova Scotia. It's the CDENE. Please discuss this matter with those people.

[David Manicom]

Yes.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

With regard to my first question about the lottery, you answered no, but could you tell us why?

[David Manicom]

I am not responsible for developing the Government of Canada policy on that. I can only say that the current family reunification policy is a blind formula. It does not grant preference to any country, race, or linguistic profile. The system provides an equal opportunity for every person who wants to sponsor his or her spouse, partner, children, or parents.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

That system is not working. We need to implement a system that would guarantee that we meet the target of 4.4%.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Samson.

Mr. Choquette, you have the floor.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to talk about targets. Earlier, I talked about the criticisms that the communities have made of this infamous plan. The plan sets out deadlines for meeting the targets, but it does not set out any deadlines for establishing measures to reach those targets. Do you intend to establish such deadlines?

[David Manicom]

I will give you my answer and then I will give the floor to Mr. Denis.

The government's overall plan establishes a target of 4.4% and a deadline by which that must be achieved. Naturally, the federal government is not responsible for what the provinces do. It is a co-ordinated effort.

Mr. Denis can give you a more detailed answer.

[Joël Denis, Director, International and Intergovernmental Relations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

As Mr. Manicom mentioned, every province and territory must ensure that it meets its own targets. The federal government provides support, regardless of the actions of the provinces and territories, including those with targets.

With regard to implementing the plan, one of the 10 measures set out in the three strategies has to do with establishing performance indicators. It is more important to assess progress over time, rather than the presence or absence of measures. That will be done through ministers meetings because these are ministerial agreements.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

So you have deadlines for developing these indicators.