Official Languages Committee on May 7th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Alleslev, you can use the rest of Mr. Vandal's speaking time to ask two brief questions.

[Leona Alleslev, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I have two quick questions. First, is the stay and study program—or study and stay program—for high school students as well? There are high school students in my riding who are studying in French immersion, and I wondered if it applies to them. Second, would you consider the fact that the French test is considerably more expensive than the English test as somewhat discriminatory and unfair—in a process where we're looking to make it more fair?

[David Manicom]

With regard to study and stay program in the Atlantic provinces, I don't think it applies to high school students, but I will check to be sure. These are transition programs being developed by the provinces, so the one may not be identical to the other, so I would have to check that. It's not my area of responsibility.

With regard to the cost of French-language tests, no one in the department is happy that the English tests were less expensive in the past. The challenge is very big. The number of principal applicants who take these tests—which are only required in our economic programs—are several thousand per year. To provide those at hundreds of locations in Canada and globally—

[Leona Alleslev, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Should they not be subsidized by the government to ensure that the access is the same regardless of language?

[David Manicom]

We've looked at all such models. If you want them to be provided in a lot of places at reasonable cost, you need to work with an organization that does such language testing for multiple purposes, so you can make it economically viable. The government could set up language tests globally and run them ourselves with civil servants, but that would be extraordinarily expensive and we don't feel that we could begin to match the coverage of organizations like the Chambre des commerce de Paris who work in the Lycée system globally and in the French cultural systems globally. We are delighted now to be working with a Canadian organization that will introduce more competition into this field.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Ms. Alleslev.

Over to you, Mr. Généreux.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses.

My colleagues said earlier that we failed to implement a working framework in the past. Personally, I think that's going a little far.

We know that about $70 million is going to be added, of which $40 million is earmarked for your services.

In your opinion, what is the starting point of this five-year plan? The $36.56 million dedicated to the francophone integration pathway is going to be invested over five years. What are the initial criteria that will allow us to determine, five years from now, whether we have succeeded and met our goal? What is the objective we hope to reach in five years, compared with the initial objective? What are the initial benchmarks?

I would also like to you to explain to me the specific objectives this money is meant to achieve. For example, it talks about building the capacity of francophone organizations in the settlement sector. Does that mean more staff, people on the ground, employees in Ottawa? What kind of reporting is involved? How will we, as a committee—hopefully we'll all still be here in five years—analyze what happened in the five preceding years? We can look back 20 years, but we need to trace a line down to today. In five years, will we be able to say what happened and what did or didn't work?

[David Manicom]

That's a big question, and a complex one.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Yes, it's a very big question.

[David Manicom]

Right now, we get $29 million for the francophone immigration project. That budget is going to be increased by about a third, so we're going to get another $5 million this fiscal year, another $5 million next year, and another $10 million each year after that. So our budget is increasing from about $30 million to $40 million a year.

The bulk of that money, meaning $36 million of the $40 million over five years, will go towards communities with service providers that offer language training, connections with employers, bridging programs to support newly arrived immigrants until they start a job, integration assistance for communities, or any other comparable local services.

How can our success be measured? First and foremost, we will have made a lot of progress towards the target of 4.4%. Next, we will be able to say that we've been successful if the vast majority of these people stay in official language minority communities, meaning francophone communities outside of Quebec.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I completely understand your answer.

Do you have some kind of dashboard so the government and the Standing Committee on Official Languages can see percentages that would show what the starting point is and what the end point is? Right now, we're at about 2.5%, and we want to get to 4.4%. The target used to be 5%, if I'm not mistaken. It's been lowered to 4.4%, so it keeps falling.

Am I wrong in saying that?

[David Manicom]

Yes. I don't think there's ever been a 5% target.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Why am I thinking of 5% then?

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

That might be Ontario's target.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Maybe Ontario. All right.

That being said, I would like to see a dashboard that provides annual data we can use to track progress. Are you preparing anything like that?

[David Manicom]

We are certainly going to develop a way to monitor our progress towards the achievement of our targets, as well as to track the results of our immigrant integration and retention programs in detail. I don't have a dashboard to give you today, but that's something we're in the process of putting together.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I was not necessarily looking for a table today, but you know what I mean.

What I mean is that you must require a minimum of accountability from your subcontractors. You have 500 of them across Canada. These people provide services, and of course we know how it works: some of these suppliers got a grade of 10 on the evaluation of their services, while others got just a 2. Of course, they are not all equal: some are more effective, and some are less effective. You have to be able to evaluate the performance of all your suppliers.

On another topic, will some of the money stay here, in Ottawa? My fear, I admit, is that a considerable share of the new funding will stay in Ottawa and not go to the communities. We see that often.

Of the new funding that you will be receiving over the next five years, is there a set percentage that will remain in Ottawa, to provide supervision, for instance? Do you need extra staff to supervise the use of the additional funding that you will receive?

[David Manicom]

Yes, as I said, about 90% of the funding will go to the communities. Some money will stay in Ottawa, but for good reasons, I think, such as the one you mentioned. We also want to have full-time staff to coordinate the programs with the provinces and evaluate them, record the results, conduct research, organize job fairs abroad, and coordinate all those activities. Yes, there will be extra staff in Ottawa, but the vast majority of this funding will go directly into grants and contributions, which we use to meet our objectives through partner organizations in our communities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Généreux.

We will now move on to Ms. Linda Lapointe for four minutes.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I would like to say something quickly in closing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

You may have a few seconds, Mr. Généreux.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I would like the committee to officially ask the department to report back to us by providing a detailed dashboard that shows how the money will be invested over the next five years.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Is that a problem, Mr. Manicom?

[David Manicom]

I do not know exactly what you are looking for and what your expectations are, Mr. Généreux, so it is a difficult for me to answer that question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Can you explain, Mr. Généreux?