Official Languages Committee on Nov. 8th, 2018

[Marie-France Lapierre]

I think it's also really important that the act be non-partisan. As you said, the election is coming. I hope we can continue to fight for the modernization of the act.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Do you think the present act is partisan?

[Marie-France Lapierre]

No, I'm not saying it's partisan. In fact, it's one of the acts that are really non-partisan. Some acts are a little more so in some instances. Here we're talking about an act that protects our identity. Canada's official languages are English and French. It's important to promote them and to ensure they survive. I'm talking about the survival of anglophones in Quebec and francophones outside Quebec. This is what constitutes our unique identity in Canada. We are recognized around the world for that identity and for our respect for those two languages. That's why it's important to make changes to the act.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alupa Clarke]

Thank you, Ms. Lapierre.

Mr. Choquette, the floor is yours.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to go back to the New Brunswick issue with Mr. Chaisson.

You said that New Brunswick was forgotten during the other modernization of the Official Languages Act and even that it was forgotten during the initial rollout of the Official Languages Act. I'd like you to give us a few more details on that oversight.

You mentioned a few specific characteristics that we should see. For example, the official languages regulations under part IV of the act were recently modernized. From what I understand, you were forgotten again. Perhaps the same thing is occurring in immigration.

Explain to us a little of what's special about New Brunswick, as the only bilingual province of Canada, and what should be done so that people stop forgetting it.

[Ali Chaisson]

I think less attention should be paid to the idea of bilingualism and more to the idea of duality.

New Brunswick is the only province that has a dual education system. The Department of Education is divided into two parts. There are two deputy ministers, an anglophone and a francophone, and they offer parallel programs. This duality is somewhat apparent in health, despite the fact that there's no official duality in that field in New Brunswick. It would be really practical if that could be the case; it's a wish.

Our social experience in New Brunswick is special. I've been speaking with my counterparts for 30 years, and I would say it's often the envy of the other provinces. We have a distinct education system in which we can create programs specific to the community, but this duality isn't without its challenges.

In immigration, for example, if the Acadians of New Brunswick don't manage francophone immigration, then we're doomed. We have to be able to shape a kind of duality in immigration, early childhood and culture. The SANB's position on this is very firm: we demand duality in all matters pertaining to the social development of individuals.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

There isn't any duality in early childhood right now, but there is in immigration?

[Ali Chaisson]

Education is the only area where duality is absolute: it's laid down in the act and entrenched in the Constitution.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

So that's not the case for immigration.

[Ali Chaisson]

Exactly. You can see it in the results, especially in rural areas where the numbers aren't big enough. New Brunswick's municipalities are another problem. You have the issue of the non-inclusion of the municipalities, which are seeking full local governance. Naturally, a community that doesn't have the resources and institutions it needs can't develop or create a blueprint for society to support that thinking.

Getting back to the regulations, Mr. Choquette, the purpose of the proposed minor change to the regulations is to make them more consistent with New Brunswick's provincial act. I would even say there's no problem with OLEP or the federal government's ability to invest money in the school boards. We don't need to amend the act for that.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alupa Clarke]

That's good. Thank you.

We're on the last and final round, and there are 12 minutes left. I'll turn the floor over to Mr. Généreux, and then it will be Ms. Lambropoulos's turn.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

In the end, I'm lucky not to have lost a minute and a half earlier.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I let him have it all.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I'm going to continue the conversation you were having with Mr. Choquette.

A new government has just been elected in New Brunswick, fortunately a Conservative one. Unfortunately, the premier is a unilingual anglophone, from what I understand. Three members were also elected from a party that appears to be anti-francophone. That was their key issue. Well, that's what I understand from the various branches, and you can correct me if I'm wrong.

New Brunswick is the only officially bilingual province in Canada. Apart from any partisan considerations, how do you interpret the rise of that kind of party? Do you see it as signalling a step backwards for bilingualism? How do you perceive this in Canada's only bilingual province? What's it like for you right now?

[Ali Chaisson]

I like the expression "partisan craziness".

On this matter, the Higgs government will do what it has to do in order to govern. The issue is absolutely and intrinsically clear to us at the SANB: we won't accept any setback for language rights. As for the People's Alliance—I don't like the French translation, "Alliance des gens", because it was done by Google—that party was established to put an end to duality in New Brunswick because it would cost too much, create a separation between anglophones and francophones and all that facile populist rhetoric.

The New Brunswick economy isn't doing well, and, as you can see from the way so-called modern societies are evolving, there's a tendency to attack the most vulnerable people once things take a turn for the worse. The linguistic minorities in New Brunswick are part of those vulnerable communities that people feel free to attack. People then say the economy is doing poorly because we pay twice for ambulances, we have two kinds of schools, and we pay twice as much for school buses and hospitals.

First, all the statistics and economic studies clearly show that New Brunswick's duality doesn't necessarily cost more. Second, New Brunswick's duality and bilingual capacity generate economic activity representing at least $8 billion a year.

It's easy to make up any story in response to anybody at any time. However, when you start to sift through the facts, the responses don't come so quickly.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I have an enormous amount of respect for the general public's intelligence. You shouldn't underestimate the collective intelligence. In a bilingual province like New Brunswick, when you elect people who are openly opposed to linguistic duality to represent you in Parliament...

You don't agree with what I'm saying?

[Ali Chaisson]

Here's the problem: New Brunswick isn't a bilingual province. New Brunswick has institutional bilingualism, like the federal government. You can't say Canada is bilingual; it's not true. There are 63,000 unilingual francophones and approximately 150,000 who are bilingual.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

That's about 10% of the population.

[Ali Chaisson]

The bilingualism rate among anglophones is substantially lower than that. For 50 years, bilingualism in New Brunswick has ensured that francophones are assimilated into English. After 50 years, it isn't right that anglophones in New Brunswick don't speak French and have no desire to learn it. It's not right. These people have ample reasons not to do it.

I sincerely don't care; that's their choice. However, there has to be a collective or social change. The events in California last night have shown us one thing: we have a social responsibility as a country—and that includes all citizens—to establish a country that doesn't look like other countries but rather looks like us. We have the linguistic values of two founding peoples, anglophones and francophones, in one country. If the Canadian government and the parliamentarians who administer it can't come up with a value system that is intrinsically connected to the way our society has evolved, then we have a problem.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alupa Clarke]

Ms. Lambropoulos, you have the floor.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Saint-Laurent, Lib.]

You're right in saying that everyone should try to be bilingual and that English and French are the two official languages. I imagine it's very hard to convince people to become bilingual. There could be mandatory courses at all levels. That could definitely help.

I'm an anglophone from Quebec. I went to an anglophone school that offered French courses. I also went through French immersion. That's why I speak good French. I didn't really have the necessary ability or confidence to speak French until I finished high school and started to work in French. I wasn't bilingual, even though I had studied French. It's true that it's hard and that there should be more opportunities to converse in French and live in a bilingual environment every day. That would help.

Mr. Chaisson, you said it was hard to obtain services in French from federal agencies, and I find that appalling. Under the act and the action plan, the percentage of francophone staff at the federal agencies in New Brunswick should be proportionate to the size of the francophone population. However, that doesn't appear to be the case.

Have you filed any complaints with the Commissioner of Official Languages. What are you doing to raise this problem, apart from testifying here?

[Ali Chaisson]

I want to say two things.

First, I graduated from an immersion school too. The government didn't grant a right to French-language education in my time.

Then, in the last 30 years, which I have spent in the Canadian francophonie, I have filed I don't know how many complaints. I'm here today to say that I don't see that anything has changed.

I'd like to go back to the point I raised earlier. I have never said, and would never say, that people should be compelled to learn a language, never ever. I come from Newfoundland and Labrador, a province where 26,000 young anglophones are learning French but are not being forced to do so.

However, madam, I think it's appalling that, after 50 years of bilingualism, a community college in New Brunswick hasn't come up with a French-language program for the nurses it's training to ensure they have a minimum level of proficiency in French once they complete their studies, when it knows perfectly well that those students will be applying for essentially bilingual positions upon graduation. On the other hand, all the students at the francophone community college are bilingual at the end of their studies. That's what I find appalling.

Anglophones aren't opposed to the language issue; they're opposed to the fact that someone has knowingly decided to deprive them of that option. I would even go so far as to say that there's a lack of political leadership. Instead we should ask ourselves what has to be done to have a bilingual province and to ensure that the anglophone and francophone communities feel they are being served. That's not what has been done, and the result is the People's Alliance.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos]

What could the federal government do to improve the situation of francophones in your province?

[Ali Chaisson]

We've been talking about reparations in French Canada for many years—some of you have been fighting that fight for longer than I have. Once again, the issue is the basic values of this country. Are we going to invest money to right the wrong that has been done in the 50 years the act has existed, and beyond, since we can go back further than that?

Some measures don't work, and the communities should be asked what constitutes a positive measure. Does that involve asking Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada to invest in the Réseaux en immigration francophone, the RIF, to promote francophone immigration? Should the same amount then be granted to Newfoundland and Labrador, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick? Do those four provinces have the same needs? I don't know. I'm not an expert, but I think the measures should be commensurate with francophone population density. The most basic concept that should be defined is the concept of a "positive measure".