Evidence of meeting #124 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ontario.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Carol Jolin  President, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario
Mona Fortier  Ottawa—Vanier, Lib.
Peter Hominuk  Executive Director, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario
Emmanuella Lambropoulos  Saint-Laurent, Lib.
Normand Labrie  Interim President, Université de l'Ontario français
Florence Ngenzebuhoro  Member of the Governance Council, Université de l'Ontario français
Jean Rioux  Saint-Jean, Lib.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC

You can count on my support. I have my cheque book in my briefcase. Keep me informed.

10:10 a.m.

Interim President, Université de l'Ontario français

Normand Labrie

I'm going to go right around the table before I leave.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Thank you, Mr. Blaney.

Now we turn the floor over to Mrs. Fortier.

10:10 a.m.

Ottawa—Vanier, Lib.

Mona Fortier

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to the Standing Committee on Official Languages. I'm very proud to see you here today, and I'm glad we can have this conversation, which is so important for our communities.

That reminds me that the Franco-Ontarian community has been interested in the education continuum from early childhood to the postsecondary level for a very long time. The French-language university project in Toronto is of course part of that continuum.

What's happening is not just a direct attack on the Université de l'Ontario français; it's also an attack on all postsecondary programs currently offered by several colleges and universities in Ontario.

That's the subject I wanted to address with you today. It's important to train not only young people—we know that—but also adults. With respect to immigration, we've expressed the intention to welcome a certain percentage of francophone immigrants, particularly in Toronto. However, access to French-language training would be crucially important in that it could help encourage immigrants to settle and work in French in the Toronto area.

So there's this frontal attack on the Université de l'Ontario français, but it goes beyond that institution. I'm thinking, in particular, of postsecondary education institutions. How do you think we can protect the postsecondary programs that are offered in French across the province?

10:10 a.m.

Interim President, Université de l'Ontario français

Normand Labrie

Our project is actually inclusive. We conduct a lot of consultations and we decided at the outset to establish partnerships. We intend to offer a variety of programs. I talked specifically about the alternative bachelor's degree in education, which we could offer in partnership with other universities that offer courses or programs in French. The program could be offered on an alternating basis at various institutions in Toronto, Hearst or Ottawa. We could also offer them on a co-modal basis, by which I mean we could allow students from elsewhere to enroll in our programs.

In the longer term, I would note that the legislation gives us a provincial mission. Our first campus will be located in Toronto, but we hope to create affiliations and partnerships with other existing universities. In law or social work, for example, we've had discussions with the University of Ottawa in recent months in the hope that those programs accredited by a professional association can be offered in French in Toronto. Some mechanisms like these require that we be able to rely on partnerships. I think that's essential.

10:15 a.m.

Ottawa—Vanier, Lib.

Mona Fortier

Before being appointed to this committee in September, I had the privilege of sitting on the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities as part of an exchange program. That committee conducted a study on experiential learning for young Canadians enrolled in postsecondary studies. This is a very important issue for entrepreneurs, who want to hire students while they're studying. You briefly talked about this earlier. Would you please give us your views on the subject?

I see Mrs. Ngenzebuhoro would like to answer.

10:15 a.m.

Interim President, Université de l'Ontario français

Normand Labrie

I'll start and then I'll turn the floor over to her. I simply want to note that we worked on this subject in cooperation with a team of Canadian experts, including Cara Krezek from Brock University. She's the director of the Co-op, Career and Experiential Education organization, and she helped us design our project.

All our students will follow an experience-based approach and will complete work terms during their studies. We know from our current knowledge base that this is a very important way of viewing education. Consequently, we've made it a central element of our university's pedagogical approach.

I'm going to let Mrs. Ngenzebuhoro continue.

10:15 a.m.

Florence Ngenzebuhoro Member of the Governance Council, Université de l'Ontario français

Thank you for your question, Mrs. Fortier.

I'm the executive director of the Centre francophone de Toronto, which is the largest multi-service centre in Ontario. We provide many services in areas such as mental health and immigration. However, we're constantly short of personnel. Many of the people who work in our organization are foreign graduates in medicine, social work and nursing. They are francophones who have settled in Toronto but who don't have the necessary credentials to work in their professions in Canada. We were relying on the university to help us remedy this critical labour shortage in Toronto.

10:15 a.m.

Ottawa—Vanier, Lib.

Mona Fortier

I want to continue along the same lines.

From what I understand, that investment won't be used solely to provide study programs. It's an investment that will economically benefit the province, indeed the country. It has to be shown that it will create both jobs at the university and employment opportunities for graduates at the end of their programs of study.

How do you think that assistance will help newcomers enter Canada's labour market?

10:15 a.m.

Interim President, Université de l'Ontario français

Normand Labrie

On October 1st last, we filed program creation requests with the ministry. We have to establish academic and administrative policies to get those requests approved. We've begun to define our academic policies. We want the university to the open, and we don't want any barriers to entry for the students, particularly those who may have followed a somewhat different curriculum.

We've already prepared a draft policy on the recognition of credentials, admission policies and academic standards that student applicants must meet to enter the university. It's these kinds of policies that demonstrate the university's openness or lack thereof. Once we had designed our policies, we took into account the need to demonstrate openness and the needs of the region, society and francophones.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Thank you, Mrs. Fortier.

I now turn the floor over to Mr. Choquette.

10:15 a.m.

NDP

François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Labrie, thank you for your presentation, which was very informative and instructive.

We've talked a lot about programs of study, but now I'd like to address the funding issue.

We briefly discussed it outside, before the meeting, but I'd like you to describe your current financial position. How much money does the university need until 2020 so it can begin operations?

10:20 a.m.

Interim President, Université de l'Ontario français

Normand Labrie

We had anticipated operating budgets of $8 million for the 2018-2019 fiscal year and $12.5 million for 2019-2020.

The first instalment of $1.5 million for fiscal 2018-2019 has been paid, but the balance is still outstanding. So once the transferred funds have been used, and after we pay salaries and rent to January 15, we'll have about $60,000 left.

10:20 a.m.

NDP

François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC

What will happen to the Université de l'Ontario français project if you run out of money on January 15 and the federal government hasn't reached an agreement with the Ontario government to save the situation?

The Université de l'Ontario français is already established. It's as though we've poured the foundation of a house and started to raise the walls but then stopped everything, with the house half-built, to save money. It makes no sense.

Can you explain to us what will happen? What will happen to the half-built house?

10:20 a.m.

Interim President, Université de l'Ontario français

Normand Labrie

We'll need funding to continue after January 15. This undertaking has undeniable momentum. If we stop everything for three years, let's say, that momentum will die. One hundred of the best consultants in the country and the world helped us design the programs we submitted. A lot of energy went into creating those programs so they could be among the best in the academic community, given the current state of the world, and they will definitely improve over time. It's a bit like a cake that's taken out of the oven too soon and collapses. If we stop the project, we won't be able to restore it to the level of quality we have today.

This university project has gained the trust of the best people in the country and around the world. I went to France to attend a conference two weeks ago. Representatives from the Université Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne, France's great engineering school CentraleSupélec and the Conférence des présidents d'université de France expressed considerable interest in our project. Those people were completely fascinated. They told us that a project this innovative and representative of academic reality today couldn't be introduced in France.

If the project were terminated or suspended for three years, I think all that confidence would vanish as well. If its funding were stopped, the Université de l'Ontario français itself would lose a lot and the francophone communities would as well.

December 4th, 2018 / 10:20 a.m.

NDP

François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC

Yesterday, Minister Joly testified before the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages and said she had been asked about funding arrangements for the Université de l'Ontario français. She answered as follows:

Let me enlighten you. If there is one issue where we are certainly in a position to co-operate with the provinces, it is in the funding of school infrastructure. The Official Languages Branch has increased its funding envelopes considerably under the action plan. Whenever a province submits a project to us, whether it concerns early childhood, the primary, secondary or even the university level, that can be funded up to a 50% ceiling by the federal government.

In the wake of what we heard from the AFO, do you agree we're no longer really waiting for the Ontario government to take the first step. Instead we're expecting the federal government to request an emergency meeting with the Ontario government to propose that it fund up to 50% of the project and to discuss terms and conditions, who will fund the first four years of operations and who the last four.

This is urgent. January 15 is almost tomorrow. This must be done without delay.

This is the Standing Committee on Official Languages, at the federal level. What do you expect from the federal government?

10:20 a.m.

Interim President, Université de l'Ontario français

Normand Labrie

We think the ideal situation would be for the two levels of government to agree today, as we speak, to work together to find a solution. We think there is one and that it would be optimal for both parties.

We acknowledge that the deficit must be reduced, and we agree on that subject. We're prepared to make an effort, but it's not up to us to start negotiations between the two levels of government. However, we sincerely hope those negotiations are undertaken immediately so a solution can be reached before January 15.

10:20 a.m.

NDP

François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC

What would happen to the programs? You've already developed and submitted them, and they're now in the hands of the Ministry of Education or the Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities.

Will they be approved or set aside? What will happen to those programs regardless of the direction the project takes?

10:25 a.m.

Interim President, Université de l'Ontario français

Normand Labrie

I slightly shortened my remarks earlier, but I'd like to point out that five conditions must be met before we can open our doors in 2020. One of them is that our programs must be approved.

They were forwarded to the Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities on October 1st. At that stage, the ministry has the power to examine the programs and forward them to the organization that will evaluate them, which in fact commissions a peer review. As far as I know, that hasn't been done yet. The programs file is sitting on the minister's desk. She must first approve the budget for providing those programs before forwarding the file to the organization, which is called the Postsecondary Education Quality Assessment Board, or PEQAB.

Work will start once that's done and will be spread over several months. It could take 8 to 12 months. A panel of international experts will review the quality of the programs and, more particularly, seek to determine whether there's really a need in the sector that warrants their introduction.

10:25 a.m.

NDP

François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC

It's absolutely urgent. The two levels of government must agree or else the programs won't be in place on time.

10:25 a.m.

Interim President, Université de l'Ontario français

Normand Labrie

If they aren't approved by early summer, we won't be able to promote them. As a result, students in their last year of high school won't be aware of them and won't have an opportunity to register for those programs in 2020.

That's very important for us. The file's sitting on the minister's desk. We hope it will be quickly forwarded to the PEQAB for peer review.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Thank you, Mr. Choquette.

We now turn the floor over to Mr. Rioux, member for the riding of Saint-Jean.

10:25 a.m.

Jean Rioux Saint-Jean, Lib.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm very pleased to welcome you, madam and sir.

The founding of the Université de l'Ontario français is a beautiful project.

We've just experienced the return of university education to the riding of Saint-Jean, at the Royal Military College Saint-Jean.

Linguistic duality is part of our identity in Canada. When people attack it, and that's what's happened to the Université de l'Ontario français, they attack our Canadian identity.

According to Statistics Canada, there are 622,000 francophones in Ontario. Less than 50% of people who have studied in French at the secondary level continue their education in French. If we want to ensure the survival of the French fact in Ontario, as well as in Quebec, we must act. As I've always said, the development of the French fact outside Quebec guarantees our survival and vice versa. If the francophonie has a strong home base, that will help you survive.

I have two questions for you. You'll have all the time you want to answer them.

As I just mentioned, there are 622,000 francophones in Ontario. How many of that number could the Université de l'Ontario français in Toronto attract?

What are the five conditions that must be met for the university to open its doors in 2020? You mentioned them earlier. Would you please provide us with more details?

10:25 a.m.

Interim President, Université de l'Ontario français

Normand Labrie

Thank you very much.

As I mentioned a little earlier, it will be a university of modest size when it starts up so we can maintain a level of excellence. We intend to increase the student body to 2,000 after 10 years of operation, and we'll continue to grow thereafter. The current population of the central—southwestern region is almost equal to the francophone population of New Brunswick, which is 240,000 inhabitants. So there's room for an even larger university. However, we intend to grow gradually.

We have to meet certain conditions.

First, as I just mentioned, there's the issue of the programs we've submitted. If they aren't reviewed very quickly, imminently, that will compromise the university's opening in 2020, or at least the bachelor's degree programs it offers.

The second condition concerns the appointment of members to our board of governors, which was done by regulation. Two conditions originally had to be met for the board of governors to go from temporary to permanent status. First, the board had to adopt administrative by-laws, which it did in September. Second, an employee had to sit on the board. I've been that employee in my capacity as interim president since October 1st. So we've met those two original conditions. Five new conditions were added on July 18. The university is required to develop and approve administrative policies, more specifically, an executive compensation plan, an access to information policy and a policy on sexual violence. Those conditions are in the process of being met as we speak.

To meet the third condition, we negotiated a lease with the Daniels construction company, on very favourable conditions, on offices in downtown Toronto. Our location is in the innovation corridor, which really makes it ideal for this kind of 21st century university. We had to meet certain parameters. We had to be located near public transit, more particularly the metro. We also had to be close to our partner universities in Toronto: the University of Toronto, Ryerson University and the Ontario College of Art and Design. We found a place that will be available in January 2020, and we'll be able to start fitting up the interior for our opening in September 2020. The real estate market is highly competitive, and we secured favourable conditions in accordance with Treasury Board instructions. George Brown College and the Ontario School of Art and Design will also have facilities on those premises. It's an ideal site for this university. We signed an agreement on July 18. Since then, we've been waiting for the Ontario government's authorization to sign the lease. Yesterday, we received a letter from the Daniels company informing us that it would renew its offer until January 18, 2019. We've lost our exclusive arrangement as a result of all the delays we've experienced. Daniels is now negotiating with other potential tenants but will honour the same conditions for us until January 18.

The fourth condition concerns start-up funding. We already discussed that this morning. We need $84 million in start-up funding for the first eight years. The federal and provincial governments will contribute in equal parts. I won't go back over the amounts we've received to date since we discussed them earlier.

As for the fifth condition, we mentioned that we'll have no further funding as of January 15. We'll have to find some after that date.

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Thank you, Mr. Rioux.

We will now continue with Paul Lefebvre for four minutes.