Official Languages Committee on Feb. 7th, 2019

[Jean Rioux]

When I think about economic benefits, I think about the number of professors who will be hired, the expenses they will incur, including rental costs, and so on. For example, in Saint-Jean, the return of university training to the Royal Military College had a significant impact on the region. So I think it would be worthwhile to look at that as well.

In particular, I liked hearing you say earlier that we must ensure accessibility to post-secondary education. Is Ontario's French-language university not part of this element? That's why I'm also happy to know that the legislation that creates this university is upheld.

How will the $1.9 million that Minister Joly has just granted to the university's board of directors be used to move the file forward?

[George Zegarac]

I can address a couple of the questions and then, with the Chair's permission, go back to the previous question. There was work done on identifying assumptions around the number of professors that might be hired. Also, we knew that the investment would be in the central or southwest area in Toronto. We know the impacts, but Toronto is a big community.

I'll go back to your question. Maybe I can just speak to the $1.9-million offer. That is for the innovation hub. I believe it was Minister Joly's commitment. That is a complementary part of the university, but it was not part of the approved plan for us. We approved them to proceed to find funding for that from other sources. It is not something I'll comment on. I think the board is free to continue in the discussions with partners to support that innovation hub. That was the commitment.

We did look at accessibility. The reason Toronto is the preferred location by the planning board and by the board itself—and the government supported looking at locations in Toronto—is that it's the fastest growing area of the francophone community. I don't think anybody debates the issue of the demand in that area.

The challenge is that you have to have funding to sustain a university. There's no sense for us to proceed if we're not going to have the funding to actually complete this project. That is really the premise of the decision to postpone. As I said, it's not cancelled. It's postponed. When the fiscal reality allows the government to engage us again to consider the options going forward, we're happy to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Mr. Rioux.

We'll now move on to Mr. Choquette.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being here.

My first question is for Mr. Zegarac. How many meetings have been held between your department and Ms. Joly's regarding the future of Ontario's French-language university?

[George Zegarac]

We've had no meetings between us and Minister Joly's ministry.

We've had meetings on other issues. The ministry, through the Council of Ministers of Education, Canada, have had an outstanding issue of funding that has been frozen under the protocol, and funding for second languages that has been in place for 10 years. We've been having discussions on that, but I have not received anything directly, nor have my staff, around any proposals to support the university.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

I'm really surprised to hear you say that. Didn't anyone in Ms. Joly's department contact you for an official meeting?

[George Zegarac]

I think there might have been discussions in the media, but I have no documentation requesting a meeting, nor do I have any detailed proposal.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Zegarac, did you and your department ask to meet with the people from Ms. Joly's department?

[George Zegarac]

I have not, and I think there are opportunities for discussion if we get something to respond to. We have not received anything.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

You saw in the media the federal funding offer, which covers four years. The offer was clear and has been mentioned several times. Did your ministry analyze it?

[George Zegarac]

We haven't analyzed the offer because we have no details. Nothing has been submitted to us. If we get something submitted, I believe my staff and I would be happy to analyze it.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Ms. Fougère, did the Government of Ontario or your ministry consult the group representing the Franco-Ontarian community before coming to the decision not to fund Ontario's French-language university and to transfer the Office of the French Language Services Commissioner to the Office of the Ombudsman?

[Marie-Lison Fougère]

Thank you for the question. As for the first point you raised, the fact is that the Ministry of Francophone Affairs isn't responsible for university funding. I think my colleague has provided you with some details.

As far as the commissioner is concerned, the Ministry of Francophone Affairs was informed of the decision to transfer the position of commissioner to the Office of the Ombudsman, but the ministry and I were not involved in discussions surrounding that decision.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

I'm sorry, but wasn't it the Ministry of Francophone Affairs that made the decision to transfer the French Language Services Commissioner position to the Office of the Ombudsman?

[Marie-Lison Fougère]

If I may, I would like to clarify a few points. The positions of commissioner or independent officer do not fall under the jurisdiction of the ministries. They do not essentially report to the government, but to the Legislative Assembly. With respect to independent officers—and in particular the position of French Language Services Commissioner—the Ministry of Francophone Affairs has no decision-making authority, since this is the responsibility of the Legislative Assembly.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Okay.

Mr. Zegarac, we are going to receive the deputy ministers that work with Ms. Joly. What message would you like me to give them?

[George Zegarac]

The only thing I would say is that if there are proposals that they would like us to consider, they should submit them. We'd be happy to look at any proposals, not only from her but from the communities. We'll take a look at them.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

If I understand correctly, if a request was made for an official meeting between the department and the ministry to take place, you would be willing to sit down with their representatives and discuss a solution to funding Ontario's French-language university. Do I have that right?

[George Zegarac]

We're happy to take any direction. That's a political discussion that occurs between two ministers. I can't speak for either minister.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Of course.

[George Zegarac]

If we're directed and there's something to speak to, we'd be happy to address that issue when it arises.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Great.

Ms. Fougère, you said that the position of commissioner reports to the Legislative Assembly. I would like to know whether, to your knowledge, your ministry consulted anyone before transferring this position to the Office of the Ombudsman. If not, I would like to know how much money the transfer is going to save you.

Since my time is up, I will ask you to forward to the committee the findings of your study showing how much money you'll save by transferring the position of French Language Services Commissioner to the Office of the Ombudsman.

[Marie-Lison Fougère]

I just need to reiterate what I said earlier.

The Ministry of Francophone Affairs is not responsible for the transfer at all; it does not come under its authority. Also, the funding of independent officer positions comes under the Ontario Legislative Assembly's Commission of Internal Economy. Again, ministries are not involved in these discussions or decisions. That's all I can say at this point.

I would also like to point out that the position of commissioner has indeed been transferred to the Office of the Ombudsman. In fact, several decisions have been made regarding several independent officer positions. The commissioner's position remains that of an independent officer, and all the powers that were conferred on the current French Language Services Commissioner are transferred and may be exercised within the scope of the commissioner's duties.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Mr. Choquette.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. I asked the witness if we could get a specific document. Could you follow up on that request?