Evidence of meeting #142 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was atssc.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Graham Fraser  Senior Fellow, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Marie-France Pelletier  Chief Administrator, Administrative Tribunals Support Service of Canada

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Good morning.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3), we are continuing our study on the modernization of the Official Languages Act.

My apologies again for the unavoidable delay, but we have no control over the timing of the votes in the House.

We are delighted to have with us this morning, Graham Fraser, a senior fellow at the University of Ottawa, a new role for him.

Mr. Fraser, welcome to the committee.

You will have 10 or so minutes for your presentation. As usual, we will then proceed with a round of questions and answers.

Mr. Fraser, the floors yours.

11:35 a.m.

Graham Fraser Senior Fellow, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to start off by saying what an honour it is to appear before the committee. I've always appreciated how committed the committee members are to defending official languages.

I'm no longer the Commissioner of Official Languages and I have no intention of speaking as though I still am. I have tremendous respect for both of my successors, and I would never want to speak in Raymond Théberge's stead. I have great regard for him.

Nevertheless, my 10 years of experience as commissioner may provide the committee with some insight with respect to modernizing the act.

My comments will focus on issues related to part VII of the act.

When I became commissioner in 2006, part VII of the act had been amended only a few months before. Rather than push for regulations to govern the application of the new part VII, I felt that it would be best to allow federal institutions to innovate and develop their own practices regarding “positive measures” for the growth and development of minority language communities.

Indeed, many institutions took their responsibilities seriously and found imaginative and innovative ways to take positive measures. These ranged from participation and support for community activities to the provision of office space for community organizations in exchange for French conversation classes. The problems emerged when federal institutions did not, in our view, interpret those obligations in a satisfactory fashion. The first was the decision by the newly elected Progressive Conservative government—made between the announcement of my nomination and the confirmation of my appointment in 2006—to abolish the court challenges program. The court action launched by the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne, which I supported, resulted in an out of court settlement that resulted in the creation of the language rights support program.

The second was the elimination of nearly all local programming at CBEF Windsor, a French-language community radio station. The CRTC agreed with my argument and required that the programming be restored as a condition of renewing Radio-Canada's licence. The trial judge accepted my argument that Radio-Canada was subject to obligations under part VII of the act, but the decision was struck down on appeal on other grounds. Since then, a modus vivendi has been reached between Radio-Canada and the commissioner's office.

The last is the Federal Court decision rendered by the Honourable Judge Gascon, on May 23, 2018, in Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique v. Canada (Employment and Social Development).

As you know—and the judge noted this—the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique argued that the federal department and the Canada Employment Insurance Commission had failed to fulfill their language obligations to the francophone linguistic minority when they entered into and implemented a transfer payment agreement with the provincial government. The agreement governed the administration of employment support measures to help workers return to the labour market.

As the judge noted, I intervened in the proceedings to argue how the sections of the Official Languages Act at issue in the case should be interpreted, in my view.

The decision is being appealed, and I would refer you to the arguments laid out by Commissioner Théberge's legal team in the memorandum of fact and law of the Commissioner of Official Languages of Canada submitted to the Federal Court of Appeal and posted on the website of the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages.

Nevertheless, I think that, as lawmakers, you should take note of Judge Gascon's analysis. In his comprehensive decision—105 pages in English and 146 pages in French—he carefully compared the terms used, weighing their meaning in English and in French throughout the act.

Paragraph 213 of the decision reads as follows:

In short, even within the OLA itself, Parliament wanted the concept of “measures” to be one of variable geometry.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

Mr. Chair, I don't have a copy of the opening remarks that were distributed to other members.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

It's for the next one.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

Okay.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Please go on, Mr. Fraser.

11:40 a.m.

Senior Fellow, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Graham Fraser

However, when, in the same Act, Parliament uses the word “measures” sometimes with the article “les” [in the French text], sometimes with the qualifiers “possible”, “appropriate” or “necessary”, sometimes with the adjective “all”, one cannot ignore the fact that in subsection 41(2) Parliament was content to speak of “positive measures” to be taken by federal institutions, with the indefinite article “des” and the qualifier “positives” [in the French text], without providing further clarification or restrictions. Parliament does not say “necessary measures”; it does not say “appropriate measures”; it does not say “all possible measures.” Clearly, the text of the Act reveals that the expression “positive measures” does not mean the same thing as these other types of measures. It clearly does not have the same attributes of comprehensiveness, necessity, precision or sufficiency found elsewhere in the OLA.

You can see from this the degree to which the judge went through a word-by-word analysis of the articles and verb tenses that were used. It is nothing if not meticulous, and it came as a bit of a shock to both the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages and the other intervenors.

I will not go through all of Judge Gascon's extremely detailed arguments, except to note that in paragraph 216 he states flatly, “In short, section 41 does not impose specific and particular duties on federal institutions.” In his conclusion, in paragraph 293, he states that the “scope of the duty contained in section 41 is hamstrung by the absence of regulations” and ”the remedies sought by the FFCB and the Commissioner are not supported in the current Act, as drafted, structured and implemented.”

As I say, the decision is being appealed at the Federal Court of Appeal by the commissioner. However, as legislators you are under no obligation to wait for the outcome of the appeal process. The courts interpret the intention of the legislator as expressed in legislation, and it is for you to make your intention clear.

Judge Gascon has challenged me, my predecessors and successors, and you, as legislators, arguing that our hopes and expectations for part VII were more a matter of wishful thinking than binding obligations.

While I hope that the appeal courts disagree, agree with Mr. Théberge, and overturn the Federal Court's decision, you are in a position to respond by ensuring that in modernizing the act you make your intentions as legislators clear and erase any incoherence or ambiguity, so that the obligations to take positive measures are binding and clear.

I'll limit my remarks to those and will not repeat the points that I made before the committee in the other place. However, I am happy to answer any questions you may have.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Thank you very much, Mr. Fraser.

We will now move right into the question and answer portion, beginning with Mr. Clarke.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Fraser, thank you for being here today and meeting with the committee on your own personal time.

We all know how deep your knowledge of the Official Languages Act runs, on both a theoretical and a practical level.

Since you talked about the Gascon decision and the fact that the federal government is appealing the decision, I'd like to keep that momentum going.

You know as well as we do that the FCFA—

11:45 a.m.

Senior Fellow, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Graham Fraser

I don't think it's the federal government appealing the decision; it's the commissioner.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Yes, sorry. It's the commissioner.

11:45 a.m.

Senior Fellow, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Graham Fraser

I'm not sure what position the Department of Justice took with respect to the matter.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Yes, of course. Thank you.

You're aware that the FCFA is calling for stronger language in the modernized act, mainly, that the word “may” be replaced by the word “shall”—in English—and that the word “peut” be replaced by the word “doit”—in French.

Do you think that change in terminology should be applied to part VII as well?

If so, how would it impact the division of powers under the Constitution?

11:45 a.m.

Senior Fellow, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Graham Fraser

That's a very good question.

I'm not a lawyer, and unlike when I was commissioner, I didn't bring anyone with me today. I'm not here with a team of lawyers.

I'm not sure whether replacing the word “may” with the word “shall”—and making the equivalent change in French—is the best approach or whether the same thing could be achieved by way of regulations.

In 2006, I purposefully chose not to go down the regulatory road partly because I sensed that the new government wouldn't exactly be keen on the idea. I hadn't discussed it with anyone in the government at the time, but my reporter's intuition told me that the new Conservative government would automatically opt to reduce the regulatory burden, rather than increase it.

I remember we, at the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages, talked about the Official Languages Regulations, with the legal affairs branch raising the possibility of amending the regulations. My immediate reaction was to say that the new government didn't even know that the regulations existed and I didn't want to be the one to tell it.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

You're talking about regulations to enforce part VII, just as part IV has regulations, are you not?

11:45 a.m.

Senior Fellow, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

As far as the other parts of the act are concerned, do you think changing the terminology from “may” to “shall” is appropriate?

11:45 a.m.

Senior Fellow, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Graham Fraser

It's worth exploring. I hesitate to say for sure one or the other because I can't tell you what the potential impact of the change would be. The benefit of taking the regulatory route is that it's easier to amend regulations than it is the act.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Very well.

11:45 a.m.

Senior Fellow, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Graham Fraser

The proof is that the Official Languages Act has been amended just twice. First, it was overhauled in 1988.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

The act was reviewed in 1988 and in 2005.

11:45 a.m.

Senior Fellow, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Graham Fraser

Part VII was reviewed in 2005.

You see now how difficult it is to undertake a review of the act with the intent of modernizing it.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

I have a second question, Mr. Fraser.

Where do you stand on the idea of an administrative tribunal empowered to deal solely with official languages complaints? Do you think it's a good idea?

11:45 a.m.

Senior Fellow, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Graham Fraser

The first thing that would have to be done is to figure out what types of cases could go before the tribunal. The biggest challenge that the commissioner, champions and parliamentarians run into with respect to official languages is getting the institutions subject to the act to change their behaviour. Is the best way to do that through penalties, or are there other ways?

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

What would those other ways be?