Official Languages Committee on May 2nd, 2019

[Marie-France Pelletier]

Of course, we have what it takes to provide this type of service. If the government chose to give us one more tribunal, we would be able to fulfill that mandate. However, this choice is up to Parliament, since the tribunals that obtain their support services from my service are listed in the schedule to our act. Legislative change is therefore required to assign responsibility for support services to the tribunals.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Clarke.

Mr. Arseneault, the floor is yours.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

That was a good question, Mr. Clarke.

Welcome, Ms. Pelletier.

By the way, Ms. Pelletier is a former colleague from the Faculty of Law at the Université de Moncton. Actually, she studied with my wife. I studied law with Ms. Pelletier's older sister.

I am pleased to see you back here after all these years.

You heard the questions I asked the commissioner.

Earlier, I mentioned the administrative tribunal in Wales. We heard from Meri Huws as a witness. The position of Commissioner of Official Languages for Wales was created only seven years ago. Unless I am mistaken, in seven years, only 13 of its decisions have been challenged and none of them have been overturned by the administrative tribunal in question. It's unbelievable. This leads me to say that the legislation in Wales in this case must be extremely specific and not subject to interpretation for there to be so few complaints. In addition, the judgments must be very clear.

I will continue along the same lines as my friend Mr. Clarke.

A parallel has often been drawn with the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal, which is an administrative tribunal. I am not very familiar with the Canadian Human Rights Act. I am more familiar with the New Brunswick Human Rights Act, which must be similar. The act is very proactive in providing investigative powers and the power to ask an employer to remedy a situation. Those powers are fairly coercive, but that is why there were only 1,100 complaints across Canada, in all languages and provinces combined. That's not a lot.

Ms. Pelletier, is this small number of complaints across Canada the result of the fact that the Canadian Human Rights Act is not ambiguous and less open to interpretation than the Official Languages Act?

[Marie-France Pelletier]

I cannot comment with certainty on the issue. ATSSC provides services to 11 different tribunals in 11 different areas, and I cannot claim to be an expert in each of those areas.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Can you provide us with a thesis, please?

[Some hon. members]

Ha! ha!

[Marie-France Pelletier]

No. Perhaps I would do so in my personal capacity, but not as part of my official role.

I cannot comment with certainty on the reasons for that. Perhaps my colleagues from the commission and the tribunal could comment, but they would still have to be willing.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

As a lawyer by training, you deal with all sorts of tribunals. Is there a correlation between legislation that is sort of wishy-washy on many aspects and a large number of appeals to an administrative tribunal?

[Marie-France Pelletier]

Right now, my role is to administer support services. My legal training is a little rusty because I haven't practiced in a number of years.

Clearly, it is up to Parliament to create a tribunal. That is the task you are currently working on. Ultimately, the choice to create or not to create a tribunal is a public policy decision. This choice should be based on the imperative that you are trying to address. There are different ways to do so and it remains to be seen which one you will be proposing.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I don't have much time left and I'm going to turn to practical matters.

You mentioned $3.7 million for the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal, plus administrative costs. Do you have any idea of what that would be?

[Marie-France Pelletier]

In general, it's about 26%.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

In addition to the $3.7 million?

[Marie-France Pelletier]

Yes, that's the proportion for our organization. Our organization's administrative costs are approximately 26%, and 74% of our funds go directly to operating the tribunals.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Of the 11 tribunals you look after, which is the most expensive?

[Marie-France Pelletier]

The one with the largest budget is the Social Security Tribunal because of the high volume of cases.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

You are in charge of administering the tribunals. What are the most common issues before the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal? Can you tell me that?

[Marie-France Pelletier]

I don't have any specific information on that, but I can always ask the tribunal to provide it.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

No, I was asking out of curiosity. We can do it ourselves.

That's it for my questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Arseneault.

We'll now go to Mr. Choquette.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Pelletier, thank you very much for being here today and for the insight you bring to the table.

You mentioned the famous monetary penalties imposed by federal administrative tribunals that you support.

To your knowledge, do the administrative tribunals you supervise also have the power to impose compliance orders?

[Marie-France Pelletier]

Yes.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

To your knowledge, which tribunals could use compliance orders?

[Marie-France Pelletier]

I think the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal does. I would have to check to make sure, but I know it is possible for some of our tribunals to do so.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

What is the difference, as far as you know, between administrative monetary penalties and compliance orders? What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?